Raising queens fro a split.

[dfs]

I split a hive last sunday afternoon, (8 days ago).

Friday I checked on it and had 15-20 emergency
queen cells.

About 80% contain larva.
On Friday afternoon none of the cells were capped.

One or two larva were fairly obvious but most were
too small for me to be sure they were there.
I assume they were there due to the large gob of jelly.

The Timing I have is as follows:
3 in the egg
5 as a larva, then capped
8 for final development.

How exact are these timings?

I Assume several things from this timing and my observation.
Please confirm or deny....

#1 None of the queens in the cells could have been
older then 3 days from being laid.
This is good.

#2 Most of them were probably newly laid eggs
at the time of the split.

#3 These have a good chance of becoming good queens ?

#4 When I look tonight, 8 days post split any
uncapped queens are worthless and should be
culled..?

#5 I should pull one of the frames with queen
cells on it and place it in another box to get
2 queens instead of one.

When should I do that?

Mating success is about 75%?

#6 My frames are standard deeps with a plastic
sheet core in the foundation.
I don't think I'm up to doing a cut-out now anyway.
I can just move the whole frame, right?


#7 The parent hive is a VERY good one so far and
I'd like to get some more like it.
Does this approach usually result in new hives
true to the parent?

Marc

[Michael Bush]

>How exact are these timings?

I find it takes about 3 1/2 days for the egg to hatch. It takes about4 1/2 more days for it get capped. I've seen queens emerge in 15 (total) days when the weather is hot. I've seen them emerge in 17 (total) days when it's cool out.

>#1 None of the queens in the cells could have been
older then 3 days from being laid.
This is good.

A reasonable assumption.

>#2 Most of them were probably newly laid eggs
at the time of the split.

Proably not. Most were probably further along than that.

>#3 These have a good chance of becoming good queens ?

Certainly.

>#4 When I look tonight, 8 days post split any
uncapped queens are worthless and should be
culled..?

They are probably just from what were eggs at the time of the split 9 days they are probably not going to have larvae in them.

>#5 I should pull one of the frames with queen
cells on it and place it in another box to get
2 queens instead of one.

That's what I'd do.

>When should I do that?

Anytime after they are capped works, but 10 days after the split is a pretty good time as the queen cells will be a bit more durable at that time.

>Mating success is about 75%?

It varies by time of year and what birds and insects (like dragon flies) are out.


>#6 My frames are standard deeps with a plastic
sheet core in the foundation.
I don't think I'm up to doing a cut-out now anyway.
I can just move the whole frame, right?

You won't be able to cut individual cells off of the plastic very easily without damaging the cells.

>#7 The parent hive is a VERY good one so far and
I'd like to get some more like it.
Does this approach usually result in new hives
true to the parent?

Breeding anything is a crap shoot. Some do and some don't. Obviously it helps to start with a good queen. Obviously it helps to make sure there are drones from good stock out there as well.

[MichelleB]

I have a question to add to this discussion. I have a nuc built from capped extra emergency queen cells (3-4 total). Their estimated hatch date would have been last Wednesday--it's Sunday now. On Wednesday, I found what I believe to be a queen larvae, still kicking but indeed without much color--outside the entrance. I was hoping that she'd been the victim of an emergent queen.

Just now, I checked the nuc to see if I could find the queen. Didn't expect any eggs, as I know she needs to make her mating flights. I didn't find anything resembling a queen, just lots of busy workers building comb and foraging for honey and a little bit of pollen. Plus, a few capped drone cells as the remaining brood from the split.

How long should I wait for eggs before deciding that none of the queens were successful in hatching, mating and returning?

[size="1"][ July 02, 2006, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Lupine ][/size]

[Michael Bush]

>Didn't expect any eggs, as I know she needs to make her mating flights.

I wouldn't expect to find eggs for two weeks.

> I didn't find anything resembling a queen, just lots of busy workers building comb and foraging for honey and a little bit of pollen.

And I wouldn't expect to. A virgin is small, fast, flighty and likes to hide. I would not even attempt to find her for two weeks after emergence.

>How long should I wait for eggs before deciding that none of the queens were successful in hatching, mating and returning?

If you don't see eggs in two weeks I'd give them a frame of eggs and come back in four or five days. If you see eggs you have a laying queen. If you see queen cells, you don't.

[MichelleB]

Update!

I'd pretty much given up on these girls, but I peeked in today and found a shiny black new queen. She's a little skinny, but to me she's beautiful--the first time I've experienced a hive-raised queen.

The last time I'd checked had been a week ago, so I'm guessing I must have missed the first eggs. There's some capped honey, capped brood, open larvae and eggs on both sides of one outside frame. The workers have barely begun drawing out two of the frames, and the other outside frame (older, drawn comb) is half full of nectar.

Going to the beeyard (this nuc's in the backyard) to see if the other hive was successful in raising its own queen.

Glad I was patient!