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Thread: My Plan

  1. #1
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    OK this is my plan. I am running it by everyone here to see if it is a good plan or at least feasible. I should have four hives coming out of this winter. I have bought enough equipment for at least 10 hives plus 4 nucs. I donÂ’t plan on filling it all but would like to at least double my hives to eight. My plan is to let the hive I want to make queens from do their natural thing of getting ready to swarm. Once they have built lots of queen cells (like they did last year) I plan on dividing them into nucs with each nuc getting a frame with some queen cells on it. Then I would let the nucs raise the queens with possibly some help by adding a few frames of bees from my other hives. Is this even remotely a good idea? Can I rely on this one hive swarming? Is there a way to force them to go into swarm mode?

  2. #2
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    whether it is a good idea or not i'll leave to smarter men than I , but I wish you lotsa luck! I will be trying to do some splits also, and I feel like Im behind the 8 ball...

  3. #3
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    Cheif:

    This sounds like a good idea.

    By the way... I was wondering if you ever wanted to get together since we live somewhat close to eachother.

    I also plan to have some extra queens this year. Maybe you would like one or two to try out??
    Chef Isaac..Culinary Arts and Honey are a sweet mix! http://www.sweetascanbeehoneyfarm.com & http://www.adoptahive.info

  4. #4
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    the chef sezs:
    Is there a way to force them to go into swarm mode?

    tecumseh sezs:
    feed, feed, feed. and your plan is not undouable and is likely the easiest method of making increase. it does require that you keep a keen eye on each of your hives because there is not much time between a boiling over hive and ripe queen cells (about 9 days). I like to carry a couple of 5 frame nuc boxs in the spring for just this kind of opportunity. incorporate some kind of small feeder into the nucs (especially if weather is good one day and bad the next) to maximize your success. if I find one of these nucs is weak I add a solid comb of sealed brood from one of my boomers.

    a year or so back I employed this method and went from 9 to 36 hives in one season (I fed fairly liberally). I even made a small quantity of honey in the process, but don't count on that. work on making the increase and then if the weather is good you will likely also make some honey.

  5. #5
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    The only problem is keeping a close eye to make sure they don't swarm. They will swarm sometimes as soon as the cells are capped. You'd have to check CAREFULLY at least once a week. I think it's easier to just make a nice crowded queenless nuc box overflowing with bees shaken in and give them eggs, brood, nectar and pollen.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #6
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    Keep in mind that sometimes you will have alot of queen cells on only 3 frames or so. (At least that has been my experience). Timing can be critical.

    I would have a couple of bait hives around just in case your timing is off. At least you'll have a chance of catching one if they do swarm.
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  7. #7
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    Everything sounds good so far. I would add that when you make those splits, move the nuc boxes two miles away to keep the bees from leaving the nuc box and flying back home.

    It has happened to me. Alternatively, I've made up the nucs and closed the entrance to keep them home for a couple of days. Moving them works better for me.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  8. #8
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    Grant said --> move the nuc boxes two miles away to keep the bees from leaving the nuc box and flying back home.

    Hook says--> You can, but you really don't need to. Just make sure you have the bees covering the brood, and eggs. These will be the younger bees, and they will stay with the brood. Half will fly back, so double the amount you think you need, and you should be ok.

    [size="1"][ January 24, 2006, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Hook ][/size]
    Dale Richards<br />Dal-Col Apiaries<br />

  9. #9
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    Do your nucs in the height of the day when the field workers are afield. You can then equalize by placing the nucs equal distance from but within 2 feet of the orginal location. The bees will re-orient to them equally. Watch the field bees coming in and you will know when you have it right. They will do orientation flights and choose if you spacing is right. After a couple of days you can relocate the hives within 2 feet a day until you have them where you want them.

    [size="1"][ January 24, 2006, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Joel ][/size]

  10. #10
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    You can also lock them in for a full day, and then let them fly. I had a hive last year that made 14 queen cells on 3 frames, boy, I hated wasteing those queens.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  11. #11
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    I just spoke to an old timer here and his advice was follows:

    If you have 10 hives and want to split them to twenty leave 9 alone and take one hive with a double deep Hive body and split that one hive placing a queen in that split and an extra HB on each and feed syrup to get them to draw comb and lay eggs.

    In six weeks, repeat this exercise with both hives.

    Now you have four two queen less two with queens all with double HB.

    Repeat adding queens if you have them or letting them make their own if you don't

    Wait six weeks (+23 days if you let them make their own)

    Split all again and now you have your eight.

    This may not work in North Dakota since the sumer is only six weeks long, but in North Carolina, I'm told, it works like a charm. I plan on trying it this summer and will keep you all posted.

    Jeff

  12. #12
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    Splitting 1 into 4 (two consecutive splits 6 weeks apart with purchased queens) is about all I have had luck with. I did 1:10 over one season (also with purchased queens) but this had me making the last split in August. The resulting nucs/single deeps were too weak to winter over and I ended back up with 1 hive.

    I also had good luck 'splitting' a double into a 2 queen hive with excluders in between. It zoomed up quickly into an incredible hive but then lower level queen swarmed - I should have split it down sooner.

    I will admit that on the 1:10 splits I was still trying to feed with quart jars on top of nuc covers with a round hole. While these worked well it was hard to keep the jars filled. I switched to hive top boxes with screen slots that allow me to feed by the gallon not quart.

    1-&gt;2 late April
    2-&gt;4 early June (tough one as July/Aug are scarce on nectar)
    4-&gt;10 early Aug
    "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes"
    Henry David Thoreau, Walden

  13. #13
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    &gt;&gt;&gt;move the nuc boxes two miles away to keep the bees from leaving the nuc box and flying back home.

    One thing that has worked for me is to take the open brood I intend to use in my nucs from several hives and brush off all bees. I then put a queen excluder above a strong hive (that hasn't been split). Within 2-3 hours that open brood will be covered almost entirely with nurse bees that have come up from below.

    Make up your nucs with these, sealed brood and honey/pollen. I shake a frame or two of bees from the brood area of the hives for good measure into the nuc.

    You will have good queen acceptance as all are primarily young bees and very few bees will fly back to their original hive(s).

    You can leave the nucs in the same yard.

    [size="1"][ January 25, 2006, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Dan Williamson ][/size]
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  14. #14
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    Has anyone out there tried queen breeding in a controlled environment? i.e. A screened cage with the queens tethered (harnessed and hanging from the top of the cage) using drones then released from the bottom raised from selected stock? A beekeeper/inventor here in Washington State has told me that he has done this successfully using queens raised with Jenter system. Also says that he has re-mated existing laying queens to extend their laying life. May take the trouble to try this idea. Any input anyone?

  15. #15
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    "Also says that he has re-mated existing laying queens to extend their laying life"

    Did one of your legs feel a little longer after you talked to him?
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  16. #16
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    &gt;Has anyone out there tried queen breeding in a controlled environment? i.e. A screened cage with the queens tethered (harnessed and hanging from the top of the cage) using drones then released from the bottom raised from selected stock? A beekeeper/inventor here in Washington State has told me that he has done this successfully using queens raised with Jenter system.

    I have heard of it being attempted. I had not heard of it being successful. Huber tried a lot of different ways to observe the queen mating and never succeded. I'd be curious to know the details of this method. I'm sure success and failure would all be in the details.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #17
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    Thanks for _all_ the input. Will let everyone know of my successes, and or failures.

    Oh and, my _open_ mind and _legs_ are just fine.

  18. #18
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    &gt; Oh and, my _open_ mind and _legs_ are just fine.

    When considering activities like "re-mating",
    it clearly would be an advantage to keep both
    an open mind and open legs, but a gentleman
    just can't offer more detailed advice, can he?

  19. #19
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    DISCOVERY is generally an endevour to advance in opposition to the "norm" or accepted beliefs or practices. How else would new ways of doing things ever come to pass? If a person is always looking for the opportunity to say "it can't be done" or say someone is gullible, then they are doing nothing more than limiting that somone's attempts at finding a different solution to an old problem, whether the results are successful or not. Think of all things we use every day that someone "invented" or "tried" that we would not have if they had not done so.

    No offense intended, anyone.....Happy "Beeing"

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