Floor without a Floor is actually a Cloake Board.
This site has dimensions.
Jenter Kit directions.
Sorry for the delay. I found someone to assist me in scanning the pages of instructions for the Jenter System that I received 5 years ago. I now have them in pdf form. I have tried to copy them onto the reply page for all to see, but can't figure out how to do it. If you or anyone wanting it will PM your e-mail address I will send it to you.(or advise how to post on the list-I not very computer savvy.)
My e-mail address is firstname.lastname@example.org and thanks.
Glad to hear your source is back. I found a NZ site that used the Jenter. He had graphics of both systems. When I saw the queen cups, I remember the difference. You can use the Jenter for both grafting and non-grafting. The Nicot only allows non-grafting.
Thanks for your pictures. Yours is basically the same as I built. One difference is I added a metal banded queen excluder to the bottom and added a
cleat to give a spot for a knob to pull it out with.
See if this link works for a couple of pictures:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/beekeeping/lst?&.dir=/Floor+Without+a+Floor&.src=gr&.view=t&.url=http%3a//us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_39335/Floor%2bWithout%2ba%2bFloor/Excluder Side.jpg%3fbcgIKjxBTd5FmRoq&.cx=150&.cy=112&.type= u
I installed my cupularve in a medium frame. I'm still debating whether that is the way I want to go, however.
I posted a picture at the previous link of both the medium frame and the bar with the fixtures for holding the cell cups and the holders for both. I was going to take a picture of the queen cup holder off the fixture, but the battery went dead. I'll take one later.
Even so, you should be able to see the difference between the Jenter and Nicot systems.
The question was whether I want to use the cupularve in a medium or deep frame.
Thinking it through, I guess it really doesn't matter. I can put the medium frame in the regular brood chamber, because it will only be there a short time.
I guess I will leave it as I show in the picture.
Do you have a picture of your Jenter?
I'd like a set of those instructions myself if someone would e-mail me a copy.
If you build it they will comb it.<br />Tim Rolan
I have forwarded the pdf copies of the Jenter kit directions to everyone that has contacted me as of this morning.
I received one non-delivery.If you did not receive please resend your e-mail address to me and I will try agian.
I don't have a picture of it. IMO queen rearing is much easier to do with mediums. You can set up nucs with less bees and still get to pick a frame of brood and a frame of stores for each. I still get two cell bars on a frame (28 cells). I can setup a cell building with eight medium frames and still do fine if it's crowded enough with bees and has nectar and pollen and brood. It would take much more resources to have the same assortment of resources for mating nucs and cell builders. I really like using all mediums.
The medium sounds like the way to go. Thanks for the information. I'll probably have more questions later.
I have never used these systems so my ignorance will be evident with my question.
What do you do with the box that you trap the queen in to lay? Does it go into a mating nuc? Does it push into wax on a comb? I'm not sure how it works.
B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/
Parts of a cell plug system (Jenter, Nicot etc.)
Queen confinement box. This has a removable queen excluder and cells. The bottom of every other cell on every other row is made up of a plug that goes in the back under another removable cover.
Cell plugs. These go in the back and become the bottoms of many of the cells in the box.
Cell cups. The plugs go in the cell cups. The cup makes the "cell wall" for the queen cell around the plug.
Cell holders. The cell cups go in the cell holders that go on a cell bar.
Cell bar. The cell bar holds a row of cells.
Cell bar frame. The cell bar frame has a row of cell holders on it.
0 Close breeder queen in Jenter box with the queen excluder.
1 Release queen from Jenter box.
2 Set up Cell Starter/Cell Builder with: Nectar- Brood- Brood- Pollen- Eggs- Cell Bar- Eggs- Pollen- Brood- Nectar.
4 Transfer larvae from Jenter to cell cups. This involves opening the back of the box and pulling out the cell plugs. Plug the cell plug into the cell cup. Plug the cell cup into the cell holder. Plug the cell holder into the cell bar. When the bar is full put the cell bar into the cell bar frame.
6 See if queen cups are started.
8 Cells capped
12 Setup mating nucs
13 Transfer the queen cells to the mating nucs. This involves removing the cell holder (and the rest of the cell) and putting it in the mating nuc.
15-17 Queens emerge.
22 First possible day to fly
25 First possible day to mate
28 First day we may find eggs.
Thanks for the in-depth response. So I guess you just push the queen confinement box into the comb on a frame then seems much easier to me then grafting.
B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/
I wired the box in an empty frame and put a piece of foundation on either side of it. You can't just "push" it into the comb because you need access to both sides. The queen and the bees need access to the front and you need access to the back.
It solves and simplifies these problems which are critical to queen rearing success:
1) Knowing the age of the larvae (because you know when the queen was in the box)
2) Transfering the larvae with a maximum of royal jelly left and without damaging the larvae.
With practice, of course, you can learn to tell the age of the larvae, but practicing with a box like the Jenter system you get to see what that age larvae looks like. With practice, of course, you can learn to graft well, but with the Jenter you don't have to.
If you look at the picture, you will see two wooden dowels. These were installed per instructions and foundation was supposed to be glued in place with hot wax. I installed the foundation as directed, but, since this frame was never installed in a hive to get pulled out, Over the years, the foundation has pulled loose. I think I will put vertical wires instead. I can heat the wires with current and imbed them in the wax.
One of the interesting things the Jenter instructions have is a guide to the larvae age by the shape.
I have problems with my depth perception. That's why I wanted to go the graftless method. It will be interesting when it comes time to catch the queen. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I just popped the cage into the frame (it fits tight from top to bottom) and ran some wires throught the top holes in the cage and wrapped them around the top bar for extra insurance. Then I used the wax tube fastener to anchor the small cell foundation into the remaining space on each side. I have no wire in the comb nor any dowels to hold the box.
If you look at the picture, the dowels are half way between the cupularve and the end bar on either side. I hadn't thought about placing them against the cupularve. That's a much better idea. The friction of the medium frame is suffient to hold the cupularve in place, too.
I drilled a hole, top and bottom to put the dowels in so they are pretty well braced. They just don't do the job the instructions claim they were designed to do. The wire isn't for the Cupularve, it is to hold the foundation until the bees pull it out.
Shucks, I might get impatient and try it this weekend. I have a swarm we vacuumed out of a house that is queenless. They're pretty crowded, too. Hmmm.