Pure russian strains

[BjornBee]

I know when the russians first came over to the states, there was just a few select places that were granted by the goverment to have them. Now I see several adds saying "pure russian" for Harpers Bees, Glenn Apairies, and I think a few others (that I do not have ads in front of me). Are these some of the originals who had them? Who has the purist strain, if that still exists? Can anybody give a brief run-down of the strain as it was introduced to the states?

And if you were ordering russian breeder queens, who would you suggest?

I have russians that are from several producers. And have up to this point selected the best of these for grafting. I want to add new genes to my operation, and will possibly start insemination this year and production next. Any comments or words of wisdom.

[D. Murrell]

Hi

Harpers Bees is the government co-operator who is selling open mated Russians.

Glenn Apiaries obtained different lines of stock from Harpers/earlier co-operators and then mixes the different lines themselves using artificial insemination.

If you want breeders, these are the best sources. More than one line is being maintained. And the different lines, denoted by color, vary quite a lot. Check with the suppliers for the latest specifications.

I'm not sure of the price today, but I paid $500 a queen from the original co-operator and about half that for an AIed queens from Glenns. Both outfits were great to work with. At those kinds of prices, a beekeeper had better understand how to introduce them without getting them killed or superceded a month later :&gt)) And that's not as easy with some of the Russian lines as one might think! Remember, you are buying the genetics and not just a queen. Talk about replacement policies before buying a queen.

Regards
Dennis

[bjerm2]

I'm with dermer51. I deal a lot with Glenn Apiaries for my breeder queens and with Strachan Apiaries. I have mixed pure SMR from Glenn and with NWC from Strachan Apiaries. I seem to be having good luck so far. They both have Russian Queens for sale if that is what you want and need.
Glenn Apiaries will AI your Russian queens with SMR drones.
See http://members.aol.com/queenb95/
I hope this helps you some.
Dan

[fat/beeman]

has anyone thought of maybe swaping some russian stock to other smaller breeders I have purchased new stock almostly every yr and graft from my over wintered hives from previous yr.I try to get 3-5 strains of russian from several suppliers.
I also keep lot of servival ferrel hives on site. all open mated for strongest natural mated ones. I produce small numbers of high sevival queens for sale. I don't advertise but to othere breeders would consider tradeing stock.+Don

[BjornBee]

Thanks guys. I made several phone calls and went with Glenn Apiaries. They are nice to deal with. I now have a russian/russian and a russian/smr on the way. I like thier tracking data for the various lines and were helpful in answering my questions. I'll be setting side by side nucs and hives together with NWC, caucasian, and my survivor bees/russians from the past years. Will be interesting to see what happens and which does best. Thanks.

I see harpers selling/advertising "pure" russians. But demerl51 says they are open mated??? Can you actually have a "pure" anything with open mating? Glenn apairies seems on the ball and was lower for AI queens, so why is Harpers more for open mated?

Fat/beeman, I can see what I can do around the middle of May.

[Curry]

I started buying Russians the first year they were available (2000). Back then, the race was not considered "pure" russian because no drones were brought from russia, only queens. These queens were mated with non-russian drones, but since drones are momma's boys, after a few years they were able to sell what was considered "pure" russian bees. That's what I think he means by "pure".

The russians were bred on an island away from any other race, so they could be open-mated safely.

[joey33]

http://www.jesterbee.com/About_Us.html

this is a very nice place to do businness with

http://www.betterbee.com/home.asp

here is a good one too

[Bob Harrison]

Russian queens:
I always in both my articles I have written and presentations I have given on the Russian bee refer to the bee as either Russian/Russian or a Russian hybrid.
The recommended way to start with Russians (USDA-ARS bee lab) was to purchase a Russian/Russian queen (Charlie Harper or Glenn Apiaries) and raise queens and then mate the queens with a easily available Russian hybrid. The hybrid produces pure Russian drones as the drone has no father.
Two years to get Russian/Russian bees.

[Bob Harrison]

"Pure Russian" is not a term I like as paints the bees of Russia with a broad brush. I prefer the term used by the Baton Rouge Bee lab which refers to the area of the country the Russian importation bees came from . Primorsky .

Russian/Russian refers to Russian queens (as imported) mated with a Russian drone source from the same importation.

There is no DNA profile at this time for the Russian bee as imported into the U.S. (Charlie Harper 2005).

A wing venation exists for the bees of primorsky.I have never been to primorsky but have got a close friend queen breeder from another country which has as his partner is Russian. He says (in his opinion and from his travels) he believes there are eight different Russian bees.

He believes the bees of primorsky are somewhat different than the others he has observed. Some of the other Russian bees he would classify as simply carniolan and others as simply caucasians or a cross with Italian genes.

Ruttner considered the primosky region bees to be A.m. Macedonica (1988a).

Dr. Tom Rinderer sent samples of the import bees to Ruttner and his conclusion was still A.m.macedonica.

[Rob Mountain]

Welcome - Bob Harrison


Rob Mountain