Moving Queen.

[dburgess]

I have a strong 2 story hive with 1 medium super that swarmed last week. I lost the swarm. I went into it yesterday / Wednesday and found no queen, eggs or larve. Just lots of bees and capped brood and queen cell cups with no eggs in them. I have a helper hive in a single deep that I use to keep an extra queen and brood if I need. I took a frame of eggs and larve out of this hive and put into the 2 story hive to see if they start drawing out queen cells, to see if they are actually queenless.
My question is:

What should I do with the 2 story hive at this point?

Why do you think this hive swarmed? It was in 2 deeps plus 1 medium, no queen excluder and I reversed 1 time to give queen more room and I requeened last september, Italian bees. The medium super had plenty of room???

Thanks, Duane.

[Michael Bush]

>I went into it yesterday / Wednesday and found no queen, eggs or larve. Just lots of bees and capped brood and queen cell cups with no eggs in them.

It is very hard to find a virgin queen sometimes. She is smaller because she's not completely developed. There may be a queen or there may not.

>I have a helper hive in a single deep that I use to keep an extra queen and brood if I need. I took a frame of eggs and larve out of this hive and put into the 2 story hive to see if they start drawing out queen cells, to see if they are actually queenless.

This is a good plan. If they are queenless they will raise one, and if they are not you haven't disrupted them much.

>My question is: What should I do with the 2 story hive at this point?

Wait and see.

>Why do you think this hive swarmed? It was in 2 deeps plus 1 medium, no queen excluder and I reversed 1 time to give queen more room and I requeened last september, Italian bees. The medium super had plenty of room???

Crowding is only one cause of swarming. Sometimes it is a perception of the bees that it is crowded because there is no open cells for the queen to lay in avaiable in the middle of the brood nest. Sometimes it's because the queen is too old. Sounds like it's a young queen and you seem to think there was plenty of room. Another reason for swarming is the simple fact that the hive is doing well and it's spring.

When you say the medium super has plenty of room do you mean that it's drawn but not full? Is there nectar in most of the cells? If the cells are full of nectar that is ripening then that is not available room.

I'm curious why you have two deeps and a medium. The bees won't care, of course, but it limits the interchanablilty of frames within the brood nest. Why not three deeps? Why not four mediums?

[dburgess]

When you say the medium super has plenty of room do you mean that it's drawn but not full? Is there nectar in most of the cells? If the cells are full of nectar that is ripening then that is not available room.

reply:
The super is all foundation. Partially drawn 4 frames with some nectar.

I'm curious why you have two deeps and a medium. The bees won't care, of course, but it limits the interchanablilty of frames within the brood nest. Why not three deeps? Why not four mediums?

reply:
I am using 2 deeps for my brood and I just supered early to relieve brood chamber congestion and to give them a chance to start
drawing out the frames before I add an excluder.

[Michael Bush]

So the medium wasn't for more brood space but for a super.

Is there any open space in the brood nest? Open cells that a queen could lay in? Maybe it was honey bound?

[dburgess]

It may have had too much honey in the brood boxes. When I was examining the hive the yesterday I noticed several frames of honey.
Maybe 4-5.

[Michael Bush]

Swarming is what bees do. They think it's a goal they work toward. I wouldn't take it too personal.

It probably was too crowded. It's not just whether everything is drawn out and filled, but also if there are cells free for the queen to lay in, if there is enough ventilation and enough cluster space for the field workers at night etc.