what breed are "russian bees"?

[jlk]

I have two hives that are headed by russian queens,that were purchased from Calvert Apiaries last spring.I was just curious as to what breed these are considered to be?Caucasian or carnolian?Just thinking about springtime and trying to plan for swarming.thanks for any response...JOHN

[Clayton]

Hi,

Just read somewhere that the Russians are in a transition area of caucasian/ carniolan bee. From what I've heard they are similar to both bees yet lean more to the caucasian side. This is at least what I've gleaned so far.

Clay

[valleyman]

I know the RUSSIANS are from the Primorsky region of Russia. They are to the best of my knowledge no kin to the Carniolan or Caucasion bees. People tend to confuse them because of their coloration. They may have been related several centurys ago. The Primorsky I'm sure about, the rest not so sure.

[Oldtimer]

If this is to do with planning for swarming, yes, russians are famous for being very swarmy. So much so that it's seen as one of the main drawbacks of the breed and people have given up keeping them because of it.

[BoTBees]

Communist bees!!!!!!

[fish_stix]

According to some evidence the Russian bees resulted from several breeds hauled to the Primorsky region in the mid 1800's by settlers. Included are Caucasian, Carniolan, German Black bees and Italians. The German Black bees are some very nasty dispositioned bees and I believe that's the genetics that show up in the hybrids when they raise their own queens. If you can afford to do it, requeen when necessary with pure Russian queens. These are cold climate bees and don't do well in the South where we need an early spring buildup. Be prepared for multiple swarms!

[Maddox65804]

From what I've read on many different sites, "Russian's" are a mixed breed, a "mutt" - not a new breed of bee. They were noticed and brought back because they had existed with mites in the Primorsky region of Russia without treatments. They wanted to promote this characteristic (mite tolerance), not a new breed.

They are some of the ultimate "survivor stock". Wonderful how "mutts" often out perform the "pure" breeds.

[Michael Bush]

Some say Apis mellifera acervorum or carpatica or caucasica or carnica. Some even say they are crossed with Apis ceranae (extremely doubtful).

[valleyman]

Some say Apis mellifera acervorum or carpatica or caucasica or carnica. Some even say they are crossed with Apis ceranae (extremely doubtful).

Why extremely doubtful? I have read that the Primorsky region borders the habitat of Apis Ceranae. Is that true? But you can read anything, as some bloggers on here prove daily.

[Moccasin]

I wonder if these are the same "RUSSIANS" I first bought in 1997? They were called "ARSYC1" It meant they came from former Yugoslavia and were first generation Carniolan.Imported by the Agricultural Research Station Hence the name A.R.S. Y. C. 1. The bees were all grey and the queens were all black. It was refuted to have lived next to Varroa Jacobsoni since the early 1900's. One BIG problem.....we are having problems with Varroa Destructor. It was discovered to be a different and new mite and officially named in 1999. I once again bought Russian queens 10 years later. They are now being open mated all over the southern USA and have a "Russian Queen" membership. The Queens I have bought and have seen others buy are JUST Italian yellow bees with Italian looking queens. I seriously doubt they are anything else any more.

[AR Beekeeper]

Moccasin, the bees you bought in 1997 were known as "Yugos" because of being brought here from Yugoslavia. They were not very successful, usually only one queen out of 12 had workers that showed resistant to varroa, and they had poor honey production.

Valleyman, Apis Ceranae does not cross with Apis mellifera naturally. Mellifera will only cross with other mellifera races.

[Moccasin]

Isn't Yugoslavia now Russia? Isn't that why they are now called Russian?

[Moccasin]

The Primorsky region is the warm wine growing region of Slovania, a country that is inside the former Yugoslavia.

[AR Beekeeper]

Moccasin, No, the "Russian" bees came from a region of Russia that is on the Pacific coast side of the country. Yugoslavia became at least three countries, Bosina, Croatia and Serbia.

The bees were first taken from the areas of eastern Europe controlled by Russia to the Primorsky region before the Russian Empire became communist after the First World War.

[Moccasin]

Yes Yugoslavia not East of Siberia. The part of Yugoslavia's Serbia called Primorsky were wines are grown. The same place our government originally got them in the late 1990's. They are one in the same. How long since the ARS imported?

[Moccasin]

I bought my queens in 97 from ARS as Russian. They were bragging on them as Russian miracle bees. The source was supposed to be Yugoslavia and now Wickipedia says the Russian bee that was imported in 1997 was not from Yugoslavia Primorsky but it was from Primorsky Krai way over as far acoss Siberia as one can get.... I am NOT trying to argue please understand. I only want to fix a mistake and clear up some misinformation for the sake of correctness.I purchased the ONLY Russian bees available in the 90's in the USA and they were ALL from Yugoslavia....Why is Wickipedia claiming they imported a Russian from Primosky Krai instead in 97? Where was this bee they are talking about? I never saw it it any of my 90's advertisements in bee magazines. Is Wickipedia wrong or was there a different Russian bee imported the same year that we didn't know of? I did not know there was another Russian import available in 97.

[CES]

Here is an article from the USDA-ARS that identifies the place of origin of the imported Russian queens. These queens began what we know today as Russian bees here in the USA. The bees that Moccasin got in 97 seems to be prior the beginning of this project by Dr Thomas Rinderer, so most likely they were imported from Yugoslavia and would not be the same bees in this project that were exposed to Varroa for over 100 years in far-eastern Russia.

Title: EVALUATIONS OF THE VARROA-RESISTANCE OF HONEY BEES IMPORTED FROM FAR-EASTERN RUSSIA

Authors

RINDERER, THOMAS
DELATTE, GARY
DE GUZMAN, LILIA
Williams, Jon
STELZER, JOHN
Kuznetsov, Victor - RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENC


Submitted to: American Bee Journal
Publication Type: Peer Reviewed Journal
Publication Acceptance Date: March 1, 1999
Publication Date: April 1, 1999
Citation: RINDERER, T.E., DELATTE, G.T., DEGUZMAN, L.I., WILLIAMS, J.L., STELZER, J.A., KUZNETSOV, V.N., EVALUATIONS OF THE VARROA-RESISTANCE OF HONEY BEES IMPORTED FROM FAR-EASTERN RUSSIA, AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL, 1999, VOL. 139, pgs. 287-290, EDITION #4.

Interpretive Summary: Honey bee queens were imported from far-eastern Russia because they were potentially resistant to Varroa jacobsoni and evaluated for resistance to varroa using U.S. mites in U.S. conditions. Comparisons were made between actual mite population growth in Russian colonies and an 11.4 fold mite growth estimated for non- resistant colonies using a mathematical model. Many of the Russian colonies showed a remarkably high degree of resistance. Forty of them were selected to be breeders to produce further generations of Russian colonies. A companion experiment using propagated daughter queens of Russian stock evaluated comparative honey production and further evaluated Varroa jacobsoni resistance. Russian and domestic colonies of honey bees produced similar amounts of honey. At the end of the honey production season, daughters of Russian queens selected as breeders had a much lower worker brood infestation than either daughters of Russian queens not selected as breeders or domestic colonies. This result indicates that the resistance is heritable. These results indicate the need for a large scale field trial to evaluate the overall commercial value of the Russian stock.
Technical Abstract: One hundred honey bee queens were imported from far-eastern Russia because they were potentially resistant to Varroa jacobsoni. Colonies that were produced by these queens were rigorously evaluated for their ability to retard the population growth of Varroa jacobsoni. Comparisons were made between actual mite population growth and an 11.4 fold mite growth for non-resistant colonies provided by a mathematical model. Forty colonies were selected to be breeders to produce further selected generations. These colonies averaged a 3.9 fold increase in mite populations. A companion experiment using propagated queens of Russian stock evaluated comparative honey production and further evaluated Varroa jacobsoni resistance. Russian and domestic colonies of honey bees produced similar amounts of honey. At the end of the honey production season, daughters of Russian queens selected as breeders had a 4.1% worker brood infestation, daughters of Russian queens not selected as breeders had a 7.1% worker infestation and domestic colonies had a 9.3% infestation, suggesting the resistance was heritable.

[Michael Bush]

>Why extremely doubtful? I have read that the Primorsky region borders the habitat of Apis Ceranae. Is that true?

Doubtful because there has been some overlap of Ceranae and Mellifera for many thousands of years and no record of this being genetically possible. Where they in contact? Yes. Can a Mellifera cross with a Ceranae? Not that has been observed.

[valleyman]

Thanks Micheal, I'll keep on the lookout for it to happen! LOL. I didn't know that there were no instances of genetically crossing of the two.

[Moccasin]

I was wrong you were right. They are importing a different stock now that is not a Carniolan. It is a good bee too.