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  1. #81
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    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Post

    And I know some beekeepers who use the pure form, and dump it in like candy....

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    3,401

    Post

    The AIDS analogy is apt, in that Varroa do have
    the net effect of suppressing normal immune response
    and thereby making the bees (more) susceptible
    to a wide range of normally non-fatal things.

    Yes, the press has picked up on a catch-phrase
    that is not accurate, but the good news is that
    it makes clear the serious nature of the problem
    in terms to which anyone can relate.

    Given the need for funding to be allocated for
    all the travel and extra work, things like a
    front-page story in the New York Times certainly
    can't hurt, even if it is less accurate than
    we'd like.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
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    3,598

    Post

    I would point out that in my mind there is a HUGE difference in Bjorn comparing a honeybee immunodeficiency to AIDS at a beekeepers meeting, and NPR doing the same thing
    they're addressing WAY different audiences
    all we need is people thinking that a bee sting will give you AIDS

    Dave

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Alameda County, CA
    Posts
    93

    Post

    Just a question on methodology of gathering data on CCD.

    In the Indiana Beekeeping school article posted at the beginning of this thread, David Bromenshenk implies that they really aren't looking at data from folks who dont manage large apiaries:

    "A beekeeper with 1-2 hives and 1-2 years of experience is too small to tell - may just have been lucky."

    He's right, with a small number of hives per keeper, your margin of error rises for many reasons.

    But. There were studies a few years back in France that showed that urban bee hives were actually healthier than rural hives, since they were not exposed to so many chemicals. I would think that it would be helpful to know if CCD has tended to spare urban hobby beeks, yet not spare rural hobby beeks.

    To get data on urban vs agriculture, youd pretty much have to focus exclusively on the little guys. I can't imagine someone in Oakland where my hives live with an Apiary with 5,000 hives. Yet I haven't heard folks complaining about unusually high winter loss rates.


    Just a thought; sorry if its already been addressed elsewhere and I missed it.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
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    3,598

    Post

    interesting thought
    I made a little map where people could post stuff about this

    http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/bees_dying/input.php

    so far no "big boys" have posted anything (I don't have a white lab coat)
    it's all been hobbyists (I think, sorry, I haven't even looked at it in a while)
    I should have asked if people were urban or rural

    Dave

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Darlingford, Manitoba
    Posts
    17

    Post

    Chillard,
    Thanks for replying to my question.

    I would suggest that you mail: Medhat.Nasr@gov.ab.ca - provincial apiarist for Alberta (I suppose that you knew already).
    He would be most interested in your comments - whether the losses are CCD or not. Please do pass on the info.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    south dakota
    Posts
    113

    Default

    What came out of the big secret meeting in Florida? Has anyone heard anything lately?

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
    Posts
    494

    Default What Meeting

    Have not heard a word from our Flordia people

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Default not so new CCD

    Came accross an Article in Nov. 2002 Bee Culture by James Tew, Ohio State U. Story was on Disappearing disease. Following are highlights.

    History - First described in 1915

    Characteristics: 1 Adult bee loss with no accum. at hive entrance
    2. Adult bee loss after a cool damp spring-losses also
    reported in the summer and Autumn.
    3. Queens are the last hive individuals to be affected
    4. Pollen and honey stores are strangely normal
    5. A disproportionate brood/adult bee ratio
    6) Spotty outbreaks

    Honestly characteristics are borad and indistinct- except for on- addult bees are mysteriously gone.
    In 1985 Dr. Roger Morse wrote "It seems unlikely that any one cause produces all the losses attributed to Disappearing disease.

    Possible causes: 1. pesticide exposure
    2. Nosema Disease
    3. Trachael mites
    4. Nutirtional shortages
    5. Environmental conditions - predominantly weather
    6. Toxid pollen or nectar
    7. Genetic Disorders
    8. Colony Stress
    9. Viral infections

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    from joels list:
    4. Pollen and honey stores are strangely normal

    tecumseh replies:
    the producer description (florida) suggested that the pollen and honey was not exactly normal since these stores in affected hives although unguarded was not rob out by healthy hives and did not seem to attract shb or moth until the hive was aired out. very pecular.

  11. #91
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    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    I have heard some say that "pollen was ample in the CCD colonies", or something along the lines that the "bees had pollen in some way, and thereby suggesting, and even ruling out "pollen" as a problem, is a little missleading and in my view wrong. here's why.

    The fact that pollen is seen means little. I have been questioning pollen, the quality of pollen, the quality of supplemental feeding, as in regards to bee protein levels and stress. But was the protein analyzed for nutrition value and needed levels of protein and associated amino acids? I have not heard thus far. I do know that bee bread samples were taken and are being looked at.

    So you seen pollen frames inside a CCD hive and dismiss protein levels. What pollen are we talking about? Vine crop pollen? If your bees are protein deficient, and just continue to feed into the fall with pollen collected earlier from vine crops and other potentially harmfull or poor quality, they will crash just the same. No amount of poor quality pollen will have them become more healthier.

    I still suggest that bee protein levels need to be examined, pollen stores from CCD hives need to be analyzed, and other factors looked at before food stores and pollen in particular can be scratched from the list.

    I am glad to see that Penn State (site Jim F. recently posted) has nutrition and in particular "bee protein in relationship to stress" as a point for research.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    3,401

    Default CCD NOT Found in Hawaii

    Despite early reports that were presented as
    authoritative, symptoms of CCD were NOT seen in Hawaii.

    What they had was a simple pesticide kill at one location
    on one island, and this incident was offered up as a TESTBED
    to compare and contrast a known "Imidiclorprid kill" to what
    is being seen with CCD.

    The symptoms were not at all similar to CCD, but the offer of
    the kill as a "testbed" may have resulted in garbled communications.


    This clarification comes from Gus Rouse (Kona Queen) in Hawaii
    in an e-mail to me:

    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><>

    "This all came about after we received a "spray kill" on one location.
    The farmer had notified me that he had used the systemic imidiclorprid.
    I offered up this info to the [Board Of Directors] of [the American
    Beekeeping Federation] as a possible way to clarify this particular cause
    to CCD. My thinking was that tests could be done on my bees without the
    complications of varroa mites or controls, viruses, etc.

    Of course within 48 hours we were getting calls from all over the country!
    We are fine.

    I contacted Dennis and Mary Ann at Penn State and they had me do a few things.
    For one, we put out combs and they were robbed out in a few hours.
    Two, just the field force was damaged and three, all hives recovered
    quickly. We have just had another coffee bloom and I have been checking
    for damage and have seen none to date."

    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><>

  13. #93
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Default

    >Despite early reports that were presented as
    authoritative, symptoms of CCD were NOT seen in Hawaii.

    So I guess varroa are back on the table as a potential vector for diseases and viruses contributing to CCD. They had been dismissed as a contributing factor on the basis, now shown to be false, that CCD had been discovered in varroa-free Hawaii.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  14. #94
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    5,752

    Default

    How significant do they firgure pollinaiton has on the bee hives,
    that is the huge stress placed on the hives during transport?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
    Posts
    1,998

    Default

    It would have been fairly simple to do HPLC and try and detect residues on these combs/bees. I wonder why there was no interst in this. As for the robbing issue, I'm not sure that this is really informative. Lack of robbing just indicates lack or foraging, which probably just indicates lack of foragers. I'm not so certain about this idea of CCD producing hive products so sinister that no bee will touch them. Its nice that Hawaii is untouched, but it would have been very informative to find CCD in a place without varroa, and with obviously different climatic patterns.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
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    1,966

    Default

    >>>I do know that bee bread samples were taken and are being looked at.<<<


    I helped with samples. Brood, honey and pollen were sampled from hives in various stages of distress. So were any bees, some in alcohol and others were frozen so they coud get to the lab intact. In addition, infected and dead hives were mapped within each yard. This stuff will be analyzed to death.

    dickm

  17. #97
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    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    dickm, I've looked at some of the frozen samples. Some pretty funky stuff growing out of those bees. But I think we are looking at secondary deseases that were opportunistic and took advantage of unhealthy and dying bees.

    Its not so much "proving" one theory, its disproving all the others to make sure you have the correct item or cause. That in itself will be very daunting as I feel the combination of factors are at play. This makes it a very long process. And in the end, we may see just a list of "recommendations" of better beekeeping practices instead of some clearly defined source that some want to point fingers at.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southern Arizona
    Posts
    25

    Default CCD and pesticides

    Here is a resent(3-16-2007) article and some interviews on CCD and a possible pesticide relation, interesting:

    http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news....ry=Environment
    Anything is possible, it just takes longer.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,243

    Default

    >So I guess varroa are back on the table as a potential vector for diseases and viruses contributing to CCD.

    On Friday, I spoke to a state apiculturist, who inspects thousands of colonies. In May, he took samples of bees from colonies belonging to one of the beekeepers who started this "CCD" thing. The samples had very high Tracheal and Varroa loads. He told that beekeeper that unless he did something, his bees would crash in the fall. They did just that.

    He still has samples of these bees in vials. He offered the samples to the CCD investigators, and they refused.

    I find that very odd.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sparta, Tennessee
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    Mike, I find it odd that an inspector would want to even keep samples of bees from mite infested apiaries. The inspectors that have inspected my yards over the years have never kept samples, that I am aware of. Oh, I stand corrected; they took samples and mailed them to Beltsville <AFB>, but didn't keep them themselves.

    Further, from a research point of view (and I am not a researcher), but I would think that the researchers would want to have control of the samples taken, from collection to analysis. There are too many variables and outside influences that could skew the samples. From how things were handled, stored, (maybe a mix up in samples from different yards), unethical behavior, etc. And, there was no inference on my behalf regarding the inspector you know, that had samples and offered them to the CCD researchers. I just think there are too many variables that are beyond the control of the researchers if in-fact they are not the ones directly sampling.

    Just my thoughts, for what they are worth.
    Regards, J

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