The drone trapping just ain't making it...seeing DFWV and/or PMS for a week or two...gotta do something,never been into counting mites so I just look at the tray and say that's pretty good or,that's pretty bad kinda.But mostly they have looked pretty good.I know,I know...
I did the sugar blaster last summer but I have 20 2&3 deep stories this year,a job,and a family.
Just not possible.
So I got a bucket of Apiguard.
Then I learned from others here that the smell lingers for a year!
I opened it tonight to check out the smell,and while not as bad as I imagined,it doesn't smell too great.
Then I read the instructions.
And was more confused.An e-mail to Landis International 3 weeks ago is still unanswered.
I hoped some of you that have tried(or been investigating)this product would be able to help me understand.
Q1;phamplet states "do not treat during honey flow" followed by "do not use the product when the maximum daily temperature is lower than 60 deg.F"
Here in upstate N.Y.we had a flow all summer,and the fall flow is started,and will go till frost,and then it would be a gamble the daytime highs would consistantly reach that.I can really only count on one more month of temp's like that.It is as likely as not to snow here for Columbus Day.Which is the time the treatment takes(2x2 week applications).
What to do?Maybe 1(2 week)treatment and winter OA?
And,why not treat during a flow?I will remove the suppers.Does it get into the brood nest honey?
Q2;phamplet states"small and wintering bee colonies and nuclei require one dose of 25g gel only"
I winter all my colonies.I don't get the wintering part of that.Any thoughts.
And,I could think of some others...like they explain the 1/4" shim procedure,and then they say to close the hive? I'm gonna think they mean just replace the cover.But someone else might take them literally.Hey,could happen.
The instructions are kinda weak,if you ask me.
They probably are worried they might confuse us,LOL.
And if you would care to offer your opinion on the stuff,that would be great.
Thanks for reading all this,I appreciate it.
Just take off the honey supers and treat [img]smile.gif[/img] I got some apiguard in the hive right now.
You dont waunt to have on supers while you treat humm... listerine flavored honey yuck!
I constructed a 3/8 x 3/8 inch spacer which roughly looks like the outer rim of an inner cover. I placed it on top of the top box where I placed the Apiguard. Then I placed an inner cover on top of that, giving a space of around 3/4 inch above the frames. The bees have room to reach the Apiguard; the fumes go down to the brood nest and not up to an empty super.
Right now it seems to be working well. I found countless mites on the mite board, checked the Apiguard yesterday and it was over 1/2 eaten.
Yes, it has a pungent odor, but now too bad. Our honey season is over (Willamette Valley in Oregon), so there is no problem here with putting on supers until spring. However, I won't treat with Apiguard in the spring because I don't want any thyme odor in the honey.
Hope this helps!
>Q1;phamplet states "do not treat during honey flow" . . .
Do NOT use when you are collecting honey or if you expect to collect soon. If you have removed your honey supers, you could apply treatment now, but dont collect honey in the fall. When mis- applied, Thymol can affect the taste of honey.
>lower than 60 deg.F . . .
Means do NOT use when its cold (late fall/winter)
>small and wintering bee colonies and nuclei . . .
Key word is "small". The amount applied "normally" to an "average" size colony is 50 grams. A "small" cluster or nuc requires less.
>1/4" shim procedure . . .
Space MUST BE PROVIDED above the gel to allow bees access to the product, they will try to remove it. Distribution of the gel depends on the house cleaning bees transporting it around the hive during the removal process. Gel helps diffuse the product evenly, efficacy is prolonged, colony disturbance is minimized, and temperature dependence is reduced. Works both by contact and fumigation.
>they say to close the hive . . .
Be SURE to CLOSE (insert sticky board) SBB.
I was concerned the thymol might somehow affect the winter stores.
The above reference takes me to a thread in queens&queen breeding...Might be me...I am not a computer guy
When I called BetterBee info before I actually ordered the stuff,I asked them IF I was wintering in a 2 1/2 story configuration,and down the road I decided to use the 1/2 story as a super (without the honey that had been exposed to the apiguard)if that would be O.K. The lady put me on hold and checked with someone else but quickly assured me that would be alright.
Recived this from Dr. Max Watkins this week
Dear Mr Dempsey,
The 2 x 50g treatment is good for a single brood or for a double brood. If you use more than two brood boxes then a further dose is often needed. The 25g treatment is useful for treating small colonies (nucs or small wintering colonies). At daytime temperatures, as you report of 103F I would try 2 x 25g or maybe 3 x 25g (See the attached list of FAQs and answers on Apiguard).
No need to restrict the entrance but make sure the bees have enough space to actually get at the gel. Best way we have found is to put an empty super on top of the brood box(es).
Let me know how you get on.
All the best,
Dr Max Watkins
Vita (Europe) Limited
21/23 Wote Street
Hampshire RG21 7NE
Tel.: +44 (0)1256 473 177
Fax: +44 (0)1256 473 179
APIGUARD FAQs - 2006 revision2 (2).doc
I would take off the supers and treat for 2 weeks and then put them back on. Then treat after the fall flow
mwjohnson . . .
The above reference takes you to a thread in queens & queen breeding, then look for my post on June 1st. Youll find a list of references I use very often. Sometimes I qoute from something that I have read, if you want to know more, just "look up" the reference given.
>Sound right? . . .
>take off the supers and treat for 2 weeks and then put them back on . . .
When using Thymol (Apiguard), I would NOT leave ANY honey (for human consumption) on the hive while treating. I would NOT return any honey super(s) until the FOLLOWING SPRING. The Thymol needs time to "leave the hive".
not to disagree with you but that's not what the label says
it says the withdrawal time is zero days
personally, I agree with you, I'd want to let the hive air out
here's the label
[size="1"][ August 19, 2006, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: drobbins ][/size]
>not to disagree . . .
That's OK. When you dont agree, please say so.
Thanks for the "label".
The following may only apply to "generic" Thymol.
Your experience w/ Apiguard, a Thymol product, may be different [img]smile.gif[/img]
Thymol residues can be found in the honey after treatments. These residues do not affect taste if applied following harvest [ABJ, 8/05, p672]. After treatment in August/September of preceding year, an average residue content of 0.1 to 0.2 mg/kg of honey can be expected in the following spring harvest, depending on hive type. These residues present no risk and do not alter the taste of honey. Only more than 1.1 mg of thymol per kg of honey is preceived by sensory testing [http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/art...3/imdorf_2.pdf - Accessed 7-14-06]. Thymol is not recommended for application during the honeyflow68. In beeswax, the application of thymol products leaves relative important residues (500-600 mg / kg). However, it does not accumulate from one treatment to the next and it evaporates rapidly depending on temperature [http://www.apimondia.org/apiacta/art...3/imdorf_2.pdf - Accessed 7-14-06].
Boy, talking about confusion and having your bases covered.
Honey: 0 days. Do not use during honey flow.
My feelings exactly...
the label says you can use it up till the day before you add supers
I wouldn't use it that way, but that's what it says you "can" do
it's rather a moot point since the best time to use it is in summer after the spring flow
of course that last comment is totaly dependent on your local conditions, that's how it would be most useful around here
I guess my problem lies in that I just don't see why the instructions say not to use during a honeyflow,instead of something like,don't use while suppering.
This sorta implies there may be a problem,I supposed that the thymol could accumulate in either the wax or honey(or both)and be unsuitable for wintering.
But I could imagine the problem to be just as likely to be that the flow might stimulate brood rearing,and then the effiacy would be lower.
I admit that this may not be the ideal time to treat,like you said,but we didn't have any dearth this year.
So should I disreguard the instructions,and just do it without a full understanding of what risk I'm taking?
I think most would agree that a can of paint comes with better instructions.
The Vita link helps a lot.
Anyone thinking about Apiguard should check that out.
>>but we didn't have any dearth this year.
well there ya go
your conditions are quite different than mine
around here there's a strong flow april thru may
about mid june it fizzles out and late june thru july it's hot and dry
for a hive with a mite problem mid summer apiguard looks like a good fit
if you have a flow all summer I would think you'd have to abandon collecting honey to use it
I guess all beekeeping is local [img]smile.gif[/img]
Okay, here is a question. Let's say I put menthol in the hives August 20. Temperatures in the mid to upper 80's. How long after putting on menthol should I wait to put on Apiguard for an early fall treatment?
wishthecuttlefish . . .
If your mite drop numbers indicate a need for treatment, and you treat the V-mites w/ Apiguard, I would apply Apiguard first (as needed), hoping the thymol would kill some T-mites too. September is a good time for T-mite treatment.
I am getting about 10-20 mites dropping, per day, per hive. These are three very, very strong hives. So strong, in fact, that I will be surprised if at least one of them does not send off a late summer or fall swarm.
Lets describe "very, very strong" [img]smile.gif[/img]
Is it a single deep w/ "50,000" bees "boiling out" (OVER POPULATED)?
Is a double-deep hive w/ "50,000 bees"?
A drop count of 10 from "50,000 bees" does not sound like treatment is necessary now. However, a drop of 20 from a much smaller (but strong) hive could mean somthing different.