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Thread: OA Questtion

  1. #21
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    Thanks Janet, I'm looking forward to reading Randy's series in ABJ. OA crystals causing physical abrasion is another interesting hypothesis.

    I received a copy of the June 2004 ABJ article Dave W. mentioned authored by Mike Stanghellini. In it he and Paul Raybold (NJ state apiarist) compare Apilife VAR, formic acid (MiteGone), oxalic acid, Sucrocide, and Apistan.

  2. #22
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    The limited reports that I've read indicate that OA levels do not increase in the honey or wax after vaporization treatment. Can anyone confirm this? If so, why is it recommended to remove the honey supers? Is it "just in case"?

    Thank you,

    Doug Rolley

  3. #23
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    Doug

    I can't find the link but you're correct, there are scientific studies around that show no residue

    as for supers, two reasons
    1) you want to crowd the bees into the broodnest because it's smaller so it's easier to treat them
    (the vapor get's diluted less)
    2) just on general principal you never treat with anything while supers are on, not even powdered sugar. you're striving for the purest product possible

    Dave

    [edit]http://www.edpsciences-usa.org/articles/apido/abs/2002/04/Bogdanov/Bogdanov.html

    [size="1"][ September 05, 2006, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ][/size]

  4. #24
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    Well I can't imagine that you won't have some oxalic acid residue in a hive after vaporizing it. The vapor condenses readily, so where's it gonna go but onto the hive body walls, the frames and comb, and the bees? I recall reading a study about this somewhere.. I think it was linked into Bwrangler's site somehow. I'll see if I can find it.

    [Edit] Well, finding Bwranger's web site was half the battle [img]smile.gif[/img] I can't figure out how to cut and past a url with this here mouse-button derprived Mac I'm using, so here's the site:

    http://www.mellifera.de/

    Click on the "English" link in the frame on the left, bottom. There's 2 studies on the resulting page, one the efficacy of OA vapor treatments (very good!) and the other "Vaporisation of oxalic acid and working safety", an 80kb PDF file that goes into OA residues. I've read both studies several times.

    [size="1"][ September 05, 2006, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: George Fergusson ][/size]
    Dulcius ex asperis

  5. #25
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    google turns up plenty of stuff
    actually in the link I posted above they treated in fall and found no residue the next spring
    in another I found they trickled in spring just before supering and found a small increase

    http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/u...xalic_acid.htm

    this is what drew me to OA (plus it kills lots of mites)

    google "oxalic acid residue in honey"

    Dave

  6. #26
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    Kirkland, WA, USA
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    I read the mds sheet here - is that type of respirator commonly available? I'd prefer not to kill myself while offing the mites with vaporized oa.
    http://www.voiceofthehive.com - Tales of Beekeeping and Honeybees

  7. #27
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Stand up wind. Light a smoker so you can be SURE of standing up wind.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #28
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    Apr 2005
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    Hi, I'm not sure how to link Bee-L to here. Randy Oliver wrote a piece on OA on Bee-L titled 'Oxalic Acid' here and he's soon to be published in ABJ both with an OA article and a 3part on Almond Pollination. Could someone help me on the link?
    Janet

  9. #29
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    Well Janet, I hesitate to post this since he does not agree with my earlier belief that OA acted as a systemic poison.

    This will take you to ¬ďSeptember 2006, week 1¬Ē in the archives:

    http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-...d0609a&L=bee-l

    To get to Randy's piece scroll down to:

    "6. oxalic acid"


    This can be bookmarked to take you to the Bee-L archives in general:

    http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/archives/bee-l.html

  10. #30
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    Apr 2005
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    Thanks Dick,
    I couldn't figure out how to link directly to the page, kept putting my address in the link.
    Thanks for doing that.
    We just had our general meeting where Randy reported on his OA findings as well as Almond Pollination. I did my reports on Powdered Sugar. We are not at odds with each other, Randy has given me so much support and time, but he still strongly feels I should do some OA treatments before winter, and I strongly feel I need to continue just using powdered sugar.
    He does want to do some powdered sugar experiments, but he also has low mite counts, and he has around 500 hives. He asked at the meeting for hives with high mite loads so he could do some experimenting on them. No body came forward. Pretty good for a whole club. They are using either OA or powdered sugar and we are all seem to be in great shape.
    Yesterday we removed our honey supers for extractions and did a sugar dusting. We have wall to wall brood on all 8 hives. I'll remove the sugar this morning and report on it later today.
    Thanks again,
    Janet

  11. #31
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    Janet, our bee packages, for the most part, come in from California. I can usually leave them untreated the first summer and get them through winter. It's mid to late summer next that pms, phoretic mites, deformed wings show up.

    As I wrote earlier in another thread I did powder one overwintered hive every 10 days to 2 weeks a year ago using the BWrangler "varroa blaster", but that hive did succumb to mites as did those overwintered hives treated with Sucrocide every 10 days to 2 weeks. Next summer I'll try sugar dusting weekly your way. On some hives last season I did vaporize OA into them to no avail, but I had problems doing that--getting the crystals to vaporize, etc. Some of my hives were requeened earlier this past summer with those Nebraska queens from MB. Those will be not be treated with anything this season, but my other hives will have OA drizzled on them after brood rearing stops.

    [size="1"][ September 07, 2006, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Dick Allen ][/size]

  12. #32
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    Sep 2006
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    Midland, Michigan
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    How does the sugar dusting work? Does it just physically dislodge the mites so that they fall to the floor of the hive? If so, wouldn't the mites just search out a new host? Or does it kill them somehow?

    Janet said, "I'll remove the sugar this morning and report on it later today".
    I'm assuming this refers to the sugar that fell all the way through to the floor. How do you remove the sugar? It seems that removing the sugar containing dislodged mites that are still alive is necessary, or if they are dead, to count them. Is this why the sugar is removed?
    David

  13. #33
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    David

    you use a screened bottom board so the mites can fall out of the hive
    you're correct in how it works
    you also want to catch the sugar that falls out so you don't attract ants

    Dave

  14. #34
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    Hi David,
    The only way the powdered sugar seems to kill mites is by suffocation. You can see a great deal of ¬Ďdead mites' coated with sugar, you also see live mites walking on top of the sugar. Dr. Eric Mussen, UC Davis says he pulls out mites coated with sugar and they are alive and that¬ís what he uses in his experiments.
    I have seen mites on top of the sugar jump on bees that land on the sticky boards as I’m carrying them to a table. It happens so quickly. I know keep powdered sugar that I can sprinkle on those bees. The sugar gets on the mites sticky pads and they can not latch on to the bee and become easily detached.
    I remove the powdered sugar from the hives on the sticky boards and after taking pictures, I scrape the sugar into a plastic trash bag. I leave the bag under a tree close by. The next day, you can see a line of ants removing the mites. They are not touching the sugar. Between sugar treatments, we leave the boards out for ventilation and you can see ants under the hive, but we haven’t had any inside.
    I haven’t had time to count mites in the powdered sugar. I’m trying to blow up the pictures we took the other day and get them posted, but it’s been a bit hectic around here lately. There were 100’s of mites in the powdered sugar, not 1000’s like last year. The one hive that had been in the shade that had our highest 24 count of 20 had the most mites in the sugar. I have the boards in right now and will check them this morning, but this would not be an accurate count, since the bees groom themselves for several days. Mostly curious to see how many drop off immediately after a powdered sugar treatment.
    Dick, Randy Oliver is thinking the best way to remove high mite load before winter would be to dust them intensely every 3 days for several weeks. He feels that newly hatched mites would need to feast for at least 3 days and this would capture most of the emerging mites. He also mentioned that you could do the powdered sugar like this just once in August, but I’m not agreeing with that. Doing a treatment in the spring and then once in early summer and then again in August, keeps the mite counts low and you don’t have to struggle in August with real intense treatments.
    Janet

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