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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Do european beekeepers using the "optimal" OA dosage apply more than one treatment per year?

    I've both trickled and vaporized oxalic acid. I can't say from my own observations that one treatment method is "harder" on the bees than the other. I vaporized 3 times in late summer and dribbled once in early November. I did notice more dead bees at the hive entrances after 1 trickling than I did after 3 vapor treatments and I attribute those deaths to the treatment, but I don't know if I might have killed (drowned?) just as many bees by trickling plain sugar syrup into the hive. Perhaps some bees flew off after vaporizing and died in the field. I don't know.

    In other words, there were a lot of controls missing from my "experiment". Then again, it wasn't an experiment, it was a desperate last-minute attempt to knock down mites and save my bees before winter.

    I don't know how my OA solution compared in strength to the recommendation cited by Jim above. I'll do that. I do know that the OA dribble treatment I followed is recommended once per year. I take that to mean that once is hard on the bees but worth the cost but twice (or more) will be bad for the bees and not worth the cost.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    North Hills, CA USA
    Posts
    453

    Post

    Bullseyesbees, sent you a PM, came back that your PM box was full?
    Walt

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >btw, your mailbox is full, i tried sending you a pm about a "business deal" and can't get through.

    >Bullseyesbees, sent you a PM, came back that your PM box was full?

    Holy crap!, I was out of town for a week, so my box did get a little full. Problem fixed, fire away!
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >Well, the European studies said that collateral
    damage was an indication of "overdosing",

    You might want to check this out, IF I remember correctly, the article on overdosing was related to the spraying method of applying OA liquid, NOT the trickle method. The spraying method has been all but abandoned because of the amount of labor involved and also because it aplied the liquid directly into the cells thereby killing more brood.

    >Another trick would
    be to compare Marion's results with the results
    to the subset of European hives given the same
    dose and application volume,

    Marion was using the European's formula, the one currently being circulated as the "accepted" use formula for the trickiling method.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >Hello E. Axtmann,
    declasing a person anonymous is easy, but it is dull and boring.


    Bumblebee, I know it is hard for Axtmann to translate into a foreign language, and harder still for you to retransulate back into the origional, but let me try.

    " I know there are people with a Dr. title and don’t know what’s going on but this both are experts."

    This reads for me = "I know there are people with a Dr. title THAT don't know what's going on, but THESE DR'S are both experts (and I think they do)"

    I believe that Axtmann was implying that these two researchers do know what they are talking about.

    Am I right Axtmann?
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,827

    Post

    >I am assuming that we at last have some
    users of OA participating in the discussion with
    multiple years of experience.

    Well, Bullseye, apparently three isn't "multiple". [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    829

    Post

    Thanks Bullseye Bill
    --------------

    Bumblebee thanks for your advice. You probably learned your English at school but my comes from my kids when they made there homework, from reading books and from the beekeepers on this forum. Thanks guys!!!
    …..
    In 1956 so-called Dr. and scientist brought African honeybees to South America for crossbreeding. Do you know what the result is?

    In 1977 the Varroa mite was brought into Germany from a so-called Dr. and scientist. The mite came as a by pack with some Asian honeybees they brought in for crossbreeding. It was known since 1905 that those bees had mites.

    If you absolutely need a name call one of the Bieneninstitute.

    These specialists are the opposite from experts like Dr. Ritter, Dr. Liebig or Dr. Rosenkranz…
    And I’m telling you you can find the so-called Dr. all over the world.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,837

    Post

    Why are we discrediting pratical experience here?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Alpharetta, GA, USA
    Posts
    520

    Post

    Another simple OA question:
    Can I build a OA "crack pipe" then use liquid wood bleach (OA) in it.
    Thanks!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,837

    Post

    >>jean-marc posted
    regarding home made oxamite strps. Actually they were impregnating shop towels( I think from the description) with an oxalic formula of sorts(alcohol, oxalic acid ?) They were trying to fine tune the process. The post had been made by a beekeeper from Europe, maybe a Swiss or German but I cannot remember. Does anybody remember? It seemed promising.


    Has anyone here heard of impregnating shop towels with an OA formulation? Sound interesting to me.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,827

    Post

    http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubb...c;f=2;t=002430

    Read the post by Finnman January 29, 2006 09:42 AM.

    "DON'T GIVE TWICE HANDLING. It is harmfull."
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,837

    Post

    >>"DON'T GIVE TWICE HANDLING. It is harmfull."

    What does this mean?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,827

    Post

    He's saying you don't trickle Oxalic Acid twice.

    Sorry if the English isn't so good. He's Finnish.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    >He's saying you don't trickle Oxalic Acid twice.

    Marla Spivak brought that up at the bee conference in Oregon a couple of months back, too.

  15. #35

    Post

    Where do you guys get your Oxalic Acid and what is the avg price?
    I checked with a chemical supply house, there price was $75.00 for 10lbs

    Do vapor treatments damage brood ?
    Its been really warm here this winter, I already have brood in January.

    Thanks for the info

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Post

    most folks get it from the hardware store
    another choice is here

    http://www.chemistrystore.com/oxalic_acid.htm

    I like the man in brown pants to show up at the door with it [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Dave

  17. #37

    Post

    Thanks for the link drobbins”

    Have you or anyone else noticed the vapor killing brood ?

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,827

    Post

    I haven't used it when there was any amount of brood.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    West Newton, Pa.
    Posts
    915

    Post

    Carolina-Family-Farm

    I get my oxalic acid from my local Lowe's, 16 oz. for about $6.50.
    Be Yourself, Everyone Else Is Taken!

  20. #40

    Post

    Thanks Carbide"

    I tried our local Lowe's store and they had several different types of wood bleach, only one was a powder and it was a mixture of oxalic acid and outher ingredients. Do you have the brand name of the product that you purchased?

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