Varoa Fungus; When does it hit Market?

[allrawpaul]

Very happy to see the fungus article. I was thinking of giving up the gloves if my bees died this winter. Oxalic has only been half effective for me. Hope they hurry!

[George Fergusson]

Don't get your hopes up, it'w lookint like a non-starter. Recent experiments with the fungus at UC Davis were not promising:

http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/facult...NovDec2005.pdf

There are other threads here on Beesource about it.

George-

[HarryVanderpool]

Dr. Lambert H.B. Kanga spoke on the fungus at the Northwest Corner Beekeepers Fall Conference on November 18th in Newport Oregon.
He said 2008, 2009 at the earliest. He could not make any promises, and that was just an educated guess.

[George Fergusson]

Thanks Harry, I didn't mean it to sound like it didn't have a future. It may not, but it's way too early to tell.

George-

[GaSteve]

It seems that Dr. Kanga is making the rounds. He spoke here in GA in October. I emailed him to try and get his power point presentation on the work done so far, but I have not received any reply. Maybe others will have better luck.

[size="1"][ December 16, 2005, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: GaSteve ][/size]

[Jim Fischer]

Kanga has been less than candid about the status
of the work from the start. The first paper
published (and presented at an AHPA meeting)
had results that were "textbook perfect",
regardless of method of application (dust,
strips, or in feed).

Perhaps too perfect.

Kanga leveraged this and other work into a highly
exceptional leap from post-doc to associate
professor. (This would be rather like being
promoted directly from Private First Class to Lieutenant.)

To be blunt, anyone who can't reproduce their
own results after several attempts has some
serious explaining to do. Everyone would like
to see such a complete kill rate with no
apparent downside for the bees, and no toxic
stuff at all, but there is a point at which
results have to come close to the original
paper for any of it to become credible.

Right now, all it reminds me of is "cold fusion".

[HarryVanderpool]

>>>Right now, all it reminds me of is "cold fusion". <<<
Well, no one knows more about "confusion" er, rather, "could fuss-ion", oops,, "cold fusion" than your self.
Bad attitude!
You should be ashamed of your self for crossing the excellent effort being put forth by Kanga et al.
Dr. Kanga was very forthcoming with the obsticles, failures, and objectives yet to be attained in his presentation.

>>>Kanga has been less than candid about the status of the work from the start. The first paper published (and presented at an AHPA meeting)had results that were "textbook perfect",
regardless of method of application (dust,
strips, or in feed).<<<

I'll take your word, as I know it is good as gold.
However, we saw nothing of the kind in Newport.
Very open, honest and realistic.
Hugs & Kisses!
[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Robert Brenchley]

Parallel research in the UK is now receiving funding from the BBKA, and should hopefully survive government cuts, so if one line of research goes nowhere, perhaps the other will.

[size="1"][ December 21, 2005, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Robert Brenchley ][/size]

[Ian]

Jim said,
>>"textbook perfect",
regardless of method of application (dust,
strips, or in feed).

>>anyone who can't reproduce their
own results after several attempts has some
serious explaining to do.

Harry said,
>>Dr. Kanga was very forthcoming with the obsticles, failures, and objectives yet to be attained in his presentation.


So if the results havnt been replicated, and the Dr. was very forthcoming on the project, what is the explination for not being able to duplicate the results?

[Kieck]

I've got some questions about the research and the fungus as well. Like Ian said, why haven't they been able to replicate their initial (positive) results?

Also, I've read that the fungus, Materhizium anisopliae, kills termites but has no effects on bees. Obviously, it was believed to work on mites, so what protects the bees? Dr. Kanga claims that the mites can't become resistant to the fungus: why not? It seems as though one group of insects (honey bees) has some resistance, so why couldn't the mites also develop resistance? Or, conversely, could the fungus evolve to also become pathogenic to honey bees?

[FordGuy]

Actually, as for me I did not take Mr. Fisher's comments as a flame - this is a very important subject, and nothing gets at the truth better than hard questions. Can the results be duplicated? I want to know.

[Jim Fischer]

> Can the results be duplicated?

That's the essential question.

The citation to the original paper is:
Kanga, L.H., James, R.R., Jones, W.A. 2003.
Field Trials Using The Fungal Pathogen,
Metarhizium Anisopliae (Deutermycetes:
Hyphomycete) To Control The Ectoparasitic Mite,
Varroa Destructor (Acari: Varroidae) In Honey Bee
Colonies.
Journal Of Economic Entomology 96(4):1091-1099.
(August 20, 2003 issue)

[size="1"][ December 21, 2005, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Jim Fischer ][/size]

[Robert Brenchley]

Post now edited; I should probably have done so earlier, but I've been getting persistent attacks of migraine for the last few days, and haven't been all here.

[samiyam318]

I e-mailed Dr. Kanga last spring to ask him the very question -- how did he arrive at the conclusion that Varroa Destructor could not become immune to the fungus Metarhizium Anisopliae. I never got a reply.

I occasionally send inquiries to researchers in a number of fields when I do not understand their conclusions. Dr. Kanga is the first who has neither responded to me nor had a subordinate do so.

I am not an entymologist, but it seems to me that the history of arthropod (and most other) evolution is one of response to environmental change.

I do not challenge Dr. Kanga's claim, but it is an extraordinary statement to say that these mites cannot adapt to this environmental condition, and I think perhaps one so extraordinary that an explanation is merited.

[Iowabeeman]

I was at the AHPA meeting in Houston last week. Bob Cox from the Weslaco lab reported that the fungus didn't work when they put it in strips for commercial application. It allowed the fungus to dry out and it died. Thus, no mite kill. It would have to be delivered by another method. The researchers have more or less crossed this one off their list. They now have hope for 2-heptanone. There were also postive reports on tests with oxalic acid. The thing that was very clear about any treatment wss that you have to know when you get to the thresthold for treatment. If you wait too long, it doesn't matter what you do.

[Jim Fischer]

> the fungus didn't work when they put it in
> strips

Gee, that's strange, given the results reported
by Kanga and James in their 2003 J. Econ. Entomology
paper, "Field Trials Using the Fungal Pathogen, Metarhizium anisopliae (Deuteromycetes: Hyphomycetes) to Control the Ectoparasitic Mite,
Varroa destructor (Acari: Varroidae) in Honey Bee, Apis mellifera (Hymenoptera: Apidae) Colonies"

Quoting the paper:

"The fungal pathogen treatments resulted in
mortality of V. destructor that was not
significantly different from that provided
by the Apistan treatment. Daily mortality of V.
destructor was significantly greater in the
Apistan and Strip-3X treatments than in the
controls." ("Strip-3X" being the designation
for the strip application of the fungus.)

They even had charts and graphs and statistics
to back up the claims made.

> 2-heptanone...

Oh yes, the component of bee ALARM PHEROMONE!
Sounds like a fun afternoon - let's go dose
the hives with 2-heptanone!

And, remember, it's "2-Heptanone", but there
are 3 Heptones. I get that confused a lot.
http://www.irieites.de/pkritiken/bil...ce_harmony.jpg

[Michael Bush]

...And doesn't alarm pheromone attract SHB?

[Ian]

>>They even had charts and graphs and statistics
to back up the claims made.

>>the fungus didn't work when they put it in
> strips

Perhaps there are conflicting factors here.
Purly speculation,
It was said that the fungus dried up on the strips, died and was proved to be useless, ineffective agains the mite.

Perhaps the strips they were testing with were freshly impregnated, alive, and proved as an effective method of administering the fungus.
Perhaps it wasnt til later, they realized the effect of the strip on the fungus,.?

[HarryVanderpool]

They are going to get it done.
It won't be over night, however.
There is nothing to be gained by being a kermudgen at every obsticle.
We need to continue to support this work and encourage it along at every opportunity.
We (the industry) are the stakeholders.
If our interest and support goes away, the fine effort may as well.

[Aspera]

Hobbiest could also stand to benefit from this valuable work. Its also important to remember that we wouldn't need to try new things if we alreeady new what would work. It is a little disturbing though if a researcher has published results that nobody can replicate.