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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    edmonds, WA, USA
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    348

    Post

    Very happy to see the fungus article. I was thinking of giving up the gloves if my bees died this winter. Oxalic has only been half effective for me. Hope they hurry!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Don't get your hopes up, it'w lookint like a non-starter. Recent experiments with the fungus at UC Davis were not promising:

    http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/facult...NovDec2005.pdf

    There are other threads here on Beesource about it.

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
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    981

    Post

    Dr. Lambert H.B. Kanga spoke on the fungus at the Northwest Corner Beekeepers Fall Conference on November 18th in Newport Oregon.
    He said 2008, 2009 at the earliest. He could not make any promises, and that was just an educated guess.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Thanks Harry, I didn't mean it to sound like it didn't have a future. It may not, but it's way too early to tell.

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    952

    Post

    It seems that Dr. Kanga is making the rounds. He spoke here in GA in October. I emailed him to try and get his power point presentation on the work done so far, but I have not received any reply. Maybe others will have better luck.

    [size="1"][ December 16, 2005, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: GaSteve ][/size]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    3,401

    Post

    Kanga has been less than candid about the status
    of the work from the start. The first paper
    published (and presented at an AHPA meeting)
    had results that were "textbook perfect",
    regardless of method of application (dust,
    strips, or in feed).

    Perhaps too perfect.

    Kanga leveraged this and other work into a highly
    exceptional leap from post-doc to associate
    professor. (This would be rather like being
    promoted directly from Private First Class to Lieutenant.)

    To be blunt, anyone who can't reproduce their
    own results after several attempts has some
    serious explaining to do. Everyone would like
    to see such a complete kill rate with no
    apparent downside for the bees, and no toxic
    stuff at all, but there is a point at which
    results have to come close to the original
    paper for any of it to become credible.

    Right now, all it reminds me of is "cold fusion".

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    981

    Post

    >>>Right now, all it reminds me of is "cold fusion". <<<
    Well, no one knows more about "confusion" er, rather, "could fuss-ion", oops,, "cold fusion" than your self.
    Bad attitude!
    You should be ashamed of your self for crossing the excellent effort being put forth by Kanga et al.
    Dr. Kanga was very forthcoming with the obsticles, failures, and objectives yet to be attained in his presentation.

    >>>Kanga has been less than candid about the status of the work from the start. The first paper published (and presented at an AHPA meeting)had results that were "textbook perfect",
    regardless of method of application (dust,
    strips, or in feed).<<<

    I'll take your word, as I know it is good as gold.
    However, we saw nothing of the kind in Newport.
    Very open, honest and realistic.
    Hugs & Kisses!
    [img]tongue.gif[/img]
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    751

    Post

    Parallel research in the UK is now receiving funding from the BBKA, and should hopefully survive government cuts, so if one line of research goes nowhere, perhaps the other will.

    [size="1"][ December 21, 2005, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Robert Brenchley ][/size]
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,472

    Post

    Jim said,
    >>"textbook perfect",
    regardless of method of application (dust,
    strips, or in feed).

    >>anyone who can't reproduce their
    own results after several attempts has some
    serious explaining to do.

    Harry said,
    >>Dr. Kanga was very forthcoming with the obsticles, failures, and objectives yet to be attained in his presentation.


    So if the results havnt been replicated, and the Dr. was very forthcoming on the project, what is the explination for not being able to duplicate the results?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
    Posts
    2,790

    Post

    I've got some questions about the research and the fungus as well. Like Ian said, why haven't they been able to replicate their initial (positive) results?

    Also, I've read that the fungus, Materhizium anisopliae, kills termites but has no effects on bees. Obviously, it was believed to work on mites, so what protects the bees? Dr. Kanga claims that the mites can't become resistant to the fungus: why not? It seems as though one group of insects (honey bees) has some resistance, so why couldn't the mites also develop resistance? Or, conversely, could the fungus evolve to also become pathogenic to honey bees?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Batesburg-Leesville, South Carolina
    Posts
    1,443

    Post

    Actually, as for me I did not take Mr. Fisher's comments as a flame - this is a very important subject, and nothing gets at the truth better than hard questions. Can the results be duplicated? I want to know.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    Post

    > Can the results be duplicated?

    That's the essential question.

    The citation to the original paper is:
    Kanga, L.H., James, R.R., Jones, W.A. 2003.
    Field Trials Using The Fungal Pathogen,
    Metarhizium Anisopliae (Deutermycetes:
    Hyphomycete) To Control The Ectoparasitic Mite,
    Varroa Destructor (Acari: Varroidae) In Honey Bee
    Colonies.
    Journal Of Economic Entomology 96(4):1091-1099.
    (August 20, 2003 issue)

    [size="1"][ December 21, 2005, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Jim Fischer ][/size]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    751

    Post

    Post now edited; I should probably have done so earlier, but I've been getting persistent attacks of migraine for the last few days, and haven't been all here.
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hendersonville NC
    Posts
    58

    Post

    I e-mailed Dr. Kanga last spring to ask him the very question -- how did he arrive at the conclusion that Varroa Destructor could not become immune to the fungus Metarhizium Anisopliae. I never got a reply.

    I occasionally send inquiries to researchers in a number of fields when I do not understand their conclusions. Dr. Kanga is the first who has neither responded to me nor had a subordinate do so.

    I am not an entymologist, but it seems to me that the history of arthropod (and most other) evolution is one of response to environmental change.

    I do not challenge Dr. Kanga's claim, but it is an extraordinary statement to say that these mites cannot adapt to this environmental condition, and I think perhaps one so extraordinary that an explanation is merited.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lynnville, Ia, USA
    Posts
    165

    Post

    I was at the AHPA meeting in Houston last week. Bob Cox from the Weslaco lab reported that the fungus didn't work when they put it in strips for commercial application. It allowed the fungus to dry out and it died. Thus, no mite kill. It would have to be delivered by another method. The researchers have more or less crossed this one off their list. They now have hope for 2-heptanone. There were also postive reports on tests with oxalic acid. The thing that was very clear about any treatment wss that you have to know when you get to the thresthold for treatment. If you wait too long, it doesn't matter what you do.
    phil

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    Post

    > the fungus didn't work when they put it in
    > strips

    Gee, that's strange, given the results reported
    by Kanga and James in their 2003 J. Econ. Entomology
    paper, "Field Trials Using the Fungal Pathogen, Metarhizium anisopliae (Deuteromycetes: Hyphomycetes) to Control the Ectoparasitic Mite,
    Varroa destructor (Acari: Varroidae) in Honey Bee, Apis mellifera (Hymenoptera: Apidae) Colonies"

    Quoting the paper:

    "The fungal pathogen treatments resulted in
    mortality of V. destructor that was not
    significantly different from that provided
    by the Apistan treatment. Daily mortality of V.
    destructor was significantly greater in the
    Apistan and Strip-3X treatments than in the
    controls." ("Strip-3X" being the designation
    for the strip application of the fungus.)

    They even had charts and graphs and statistics
    to back up the claims made.

    > 2-heptanone...

    Oh yes, the component of bee ALARM PHEROMONE!
    Sounds like a fun afternoon - let's go dose
    the hives with 2-heptanone!

    And, remember, it's "2-Heptanone", but there
    are 3 Heptones. I get that confused a lot.
    http://www.irieites.de/pkritiken/bil...ce_harmony.jpg

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,565

    Post

    ...And doesn't alarm pheromone attract SHB?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,472

    Post

    >>They even had charts and graphs and statistics
    to back up the claims made.

    >>the fungus didn't work when they put it in
    > strips

    Perhaps there are conflicting factors here.
    Purly speculation,
    It was said that the fungus dried up on the strips, died and was proved to be useless, ineffective agains the mite.

    Perhaps the strips they were testing with were freshly impregnated, alive, and proved as an effective method of administering the fungus.
    Perhaps it wasnt til later, they realized the effect of the strip on the fungus,.?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    981

    Post

    They are going to get it done.
    It won't be over night, however.
    There is nothing to be gained by being a kermudgen at every obsticle.
    We need to continue to support this work and encourage it along at every opportunity.
    We (the industry) are the stakeholders.
    If our interest and support goes away, the fine effort may as well.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
    Posts
    1,998

    Post

    Hobbiest could also stand to benefit from this valuable work. Its also important to remember that we wouldn't need to try new things if we alreeady new what would work. It is a little disturbing though if a researcher has published results that nobody can replicate.

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