Oxalic Acid Downside??

[drobbins]

Michael,

I've definately got you in mind as a possible source.
Gonna try locally first, long way from Nebraska to NC.
There is a guy's nearby with minnesota hygenic queens
He only want $12 and is close enough for no shipping.
Might try that.
I've got italians now, I also don't appear to have mites, perhaps I'll just leave well enough alone

Dave

[Dan Williamson]

Sundance.

If you don't already have the JB200, you won't be disappointed. It is definately a little flimsy but with proper care should last for sometime. Worked great for me! Piece of cake to use. I've got a garden cart. Put a cheap 12V battery in it and run wires over the the vaporizer. I take a bucket and wet sponge with me. Sometimes you get debris (I'm assuming burr comb) in the tray. Just wipe it out while hot and you are good to go.

Dan

[Sundance]

Dan.....

How many treatments do you get on your battery?? I realize a deep cycle would be needed.

How long does it take per hive??

[Michael Bush]

>I realize a deep cycle would be needed.

If you're buying a new batter that's probably a good idea, but I bet any old car battery you have around will work. A motorcycle battery will be a lot lighter to haul around. Using the one on your truck or car, if you drive that close, will probably work fine as well.

[Dan Williamson]

>>How many treatments do you get on your battery?

No idea.... I've only used it one year so far. This fall will start my second year. I imagine it will last a long time. I bought the cheapest car battery I could find then the battery on my tractor died so I took the battery for my hives and put in on the tractor. Needless to say I won't be able to see how long it lasts. Just using it for the vaporizer.

I think you only turn it on for about 60sec a hive. (I think the time varies by the strength of the battery). I imagine even a motorcycle battery would last a very long time. Then you can just recharge it. That is what I planned to get to replace the one I had to use for the tractor. As MB said. It'll be alot lighter.

Dan

[Sundance]

Garden tractor batteries are cheap ($9.99) as well.

[db_land]

I bought a jump-start battery with a built-in charger. It's nicely packaged, has a carrying handle, easy to use. I treated 10 hives (using a JB200) in a row - could have done more without a recharge.

[Michael Bush]

>I bought a jump-start battery with a built-in charger

That would work very nicely.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I use a garden tractor battery. I think I got about thirty hives done before needing to recharge.

[Sundance]

That is good news Bill. I collect IH Cub Cadets and have loads of those.

[bjerm2]

Do you folks use the acid all year long or only in spring and fall before they have brood? Also how often do you do it?
Thanks
Dan

[Michael Bush]

When I've done it, I've only used it in the fall or spring when there was no brood.

[db_land]

The most effective time to treat with OA is on a warm day (bees flying) with no brood in the hive. On the other hand, you want to have a couple of cycles of healthy brood before winter, so if the varroa level is high treat immediately and frequently through at least one complete brood cycle.

[George Fergusson]

I don't expect my hives to be broodless until November. The bees are getting pretty well hunkered down by then.

How often can you use OA, I've heard once a year, I've heard twice a year, lest you kill bees. And are there any statistics on queen mortality? The workers aren't around long enough to get dosed twice, but the queen sure is.

George-

[bjerm2]

Good point about the queen. I was just wondering what everyone out there does with OA. I have read some do it once a month but are upset since they noticed some brood death. Others say do it only when cold and all bees are in, some when they fly, no brood -- makes no diffrence if you have brood or not. Just confused as how it is used by those that do use the acid and what their thoughts are about it.
Thanks
Dan

[Axtmann]

OA liquid = you should do it in fall only one time per bee generation. ItÂ’s hard on bees and beeÂ’s age very fast.

OA evaporation = as often as necessary the acid is sitting in the hair of the bees and not in there stomach. I treat my bees after harvesting the honey 4 times a week apart and the middle of December two times a week apart.

The last 4 years I never lost a queen because of the OA evaporation. Treat your bees as often as necessary as long as there is no frost.

Always monitor the mite drop on a sticky board.

[dickm]

November is too late. It's important to get the hive clean so that a few generations of brood to make winter bees can emerge. By Nov the mite #s will be too high.

Dickm

[JBJ]

Hello all. I would like to inquire about the brood damage potential of OA use. It seems that I have heard lots of people have been unhappy with the liquid treatments because of brood damage. Damaging the brood in the fall when the winter cluster bees are developing sounds risky to me, as does waiting till there is no brood to treat. If the mite load is heavy it will be too late by then. I would like to know what is the risk for brood damage with the sublimation/vaporization tactics?
JBJ

[Michael Bush]

In my observation fogging does damage the open brood. It seems right after treating is when I'll see a little chalk brood. I don't know why. It has no noticable effect on the capped brood and no noticable effect on the bees. I've experienced no loss of queens and no noticable change in the health or population of the bees.

I have never done the trickling. I think the vapor is the way, to go IF you need to treat, and harm the bees less.

I'd prefer to wait until brood rearing stops unless there is a severe mite infestation that you don't think will last that long.

[JBJ]

Michael, I assume you prefer the OA vapor to thymol FGMO treatments? The guys I have spoken with about OA problems suggested that it was the open brood that was at risk, have you seen any problems there? Some of the guys in our local bee club that I run have questions on the subject. I am actually debating treating at all this year. Perhaps the French have it right with their “Bond Test” (Kefuss). The Live and let die approach could be expensive in the early years, but it would have the advantage in the long run for heavy selection for the resistant/tolerant bees. So far, for the last 5 years, I have been able to survive with only fall FGMO treatments and propagating from the survivors, but it is always nerve wracking when you see mites this time of year. Due to economics and demand every colony is precious with record setting Almond pollination fees and such. The more bees, the better, come next February. Thanks for your input.
JBJ