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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Evansville, IN, USA
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    Smile

    Greetings Clint

    As a reply to the topic found at: http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000105.html
    you indicated that a bee lab had confirmed that you have no T-mites.

    Can you determine if this is a result of your past treatments, or is this because of the following statement found at: www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/treatmix.htm
    "Tracheal mites are usually not a problem from May to September. No (treatment) needs to be used until the time that (T-mites) begin to build up in late August or September. Best time to treat is September. Additional treatments can be made in Dec, Jan, Feb. Treat during winter when temp rises above about 45 degrees. Use one paper towel over top bars of each brood chamber."

    thanx for your help!
    Dave W

    P.S.
    Can you please give us the date, ACTUAL COUNT and detection method for your Varroa mites?


    [This message has been edited by Dave W (edited August 08, 2003).]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Post

    I couldn't get the link to work, but I find it interesting that you say:

    >Tracheal mites are usually not a problem from May to September. No (treatment) needs to be used until the time that (T-mites) begin to build up in late August or September.

    This seems to be true, but why? Seems like bad timing on the part of the T-mites that doesn't make a lot of sense.

    > Best time to treat is September. Additional treatments can be made in Dec, Jan, Feb. Treat during winter when temp rises above about 45 degrees. Use one paper towel over top bars of each brood chamber."

    I assume the details of what kind of treatment you are refering to would be in the link that I can't get to work. Off hand it sounds like a menthol treatment.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    michigan
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    393

    Post

    The time frame of May thru September is when most brood is raised. Tracheal mites can be present then but a young queen will lay faster than what the mites keep up. When brood production slows, t-mites as a percentage increase.

    Its why tracheal mites arent that severe of an issue in the south where brood production continues. And why t-mites are such an issue in the north.

    I've said it before and will continue, its why t-mites are a significant issue in bees which are wintered in the north relative to varroa.



  4. #4
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    Sad

    Sorry,

    I have edited the link in original post to read: www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/treatmix.htm

    MR Bee,
    Please explain "Seem like bad timing . . ."

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Question

    WineMan,

    WHEN and HOW do you treat for T-mites?

  6. #6
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Post

    >Please explain "Seem like bad timing . . ."

    A good parasite derives it's sustenace from it's host without killing it. A sudden explosion of population by the T-mites going into winter results in devasting their host and killing themselves along with the host. If the mites were well adapted to their host then the mites population would increase and decrease with their host, not increase as the host's population is decreasing.

    Bad timing on the part of the T-mites.

  7. #7
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    Smile

    Dont most parasites devastate their host?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    michigan
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    Post

    Hi Dave

    Well general t-mite treatment for years was TM grease patties in the fall/spring but I gave them up with the onset of resistant foulbrood. Then I switched to just grease patties without TM but I gave those up probably in fall of 1999 or in spring of 2000 with the arrival and establishment of SHB which are highly attracted to the patties.

    Last treatment was with a mix of essential oils in vegetable oil a couple of years ago. I think that it has a fairly good impact on them if you can get decent evaporation. Then again, too high of temps will drive the bees right out of the colony the same as with menthol crystals. I think FGMO would be real good way to get rid of them.

    Last two years, havent treated the entire operation for them and it is pretty obvious in winter loss numbers. If I was to chose one way to deal with them, it would probably be Buckfast queens. T-mite resistance is fairly easy to come by but it is lost just as quickly. So, will probably treat for them this fall given the poorer condition of the colonies due to the weather. Stressed colonies, low stores, SHB, t-mites and varroa wouldnt be a good combination.

    Hope that answers your question


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Post

    >Dont most parasites devastate their host?

    No they do not. A good parasite just takes a cut of the life energy without leaving the host much worse off. Ticks, mosquitoes, bed bugs, they all eat a little blood, but their populations are seldom high enough to kill any of their hosts. Round worms normally live in the guts of most things on the planet and although they cause some stress, they are seldom the lone cause of the death of their host and I'd say not that often they even contribute to the death of their host. A well adjusted parasite lives off of it's host without doing any significant damage. It also regulates it's own population or some outside force does it for them so they don't poupulate to the point of killing all of their hosts. A really good parasite doesn't kill any of them.

    Think of it this way. If I'm the Mafia and I'm taking a cut from every business in town (protection /aka extortion) and I take so much that all the businesses go out of business, it's bad for MY business. If I take a cut that is the maximum amount that won't hurt them so badly that they will take other action (call the police, kill my collector etc.) or go broke, then I make MORE money because I'm only a nusiance and it's easier to just pay.

    A well adapted parasite does this same thing on a different level.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Mason, MI, USA
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    1,015

    Post

    Can you determine if this is a result of your past treatments, or is this because of the following statement found at: www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/treatmix.htm
    "Tracheal mites are usually not a problem from May to September. No (treatment) needs to be used until the time that (T-mites) begin to build up in late August or September. Best time to treat is September. Additional treatments can be made in Dec, Jan, Feb. Treat during winter when temp rises above about 45 degrees. Use one paper towel over top bars of each brood chamber."
    Answer
    The only treatment I have used in 2 years is to fog with FGMO and use the cords the way Dr. R explanes.
    I send in samples 3 times a year from different hives and the combs are checked for disease and mites.
    I also do 24 hour sticky board tests and eather rolls from the brood chambers.
    iIn the last 2 years I lost 1 hive in the winter due to moisture.
    Clint

    ------------------
    Clinton Bemrose
    just South of Lansing Michigan

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
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    Question

    MR Bee,
    What does good/bad parasites have to do with:
    1) T-mites not a problem from May to Sept - True or False?
    2) Treatment during that time is useless?
    3) Is the best time to treat in September?
    4) Are treatments in Dec, Jan, Feb effective?
    5) Is the paper towel (menthol/oil) method best?


    WineMan,
    1) TM = Terramycin
    2) How and When will you treat this fall?


    Clint,
    1) When you do a drop-test, how many mites are seeing. It sounds like FGMO is working well for you.
    2) Do you have Buckfast bees?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    michigan
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    Post

    Dave

    Yes, abbreviated TM for terramycin.

    I havent 100% decided on a treatment plan. Debating between fogging with FGMO or doing towels/oil. If I do the towels, most likely will switch to FGMO as the carrier rather than vegetable oil. Also thought about switching to cords instead of towels but I think that would really be more along varroa treatment rather than t-mites. I think either method would be about the same cost and time expended......and I'm cheap so it cant be much.

    Treatment method might dictate when treat but most likely first part of September. I would prefer to do it only one time but I might do it as soon as pull honey and again when the hive is seen for the last time of the year.

    Not sure how much I gain with two treatments versus one treatment. Gut feeling is that one will suffice......I suspect those that have too high of a mite load are gonna die either way. Plus, if the t-mite load is that bad I would just as soon have the colony croak and be replaced. Mainly interesting in saving those that are pushing close to the threshold.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
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    Mason, MI, USA
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    Post

    Clint,
    1) When you do a drop-test, how many mites are seeing. It sounds like FGMO is working well for you.
    Answer
    The number varies from 2 normally to 50 in the fall (when I know the bees are robbing other hives) That is why I have made the time to fog all my hives weekly.
    Yes FGMO is working for me.

    2) Do you have Buckfast bees?
    Answer
    No most of my bees are from Italian stock.
    I re-queen the hives every 2 years in the fall.
    I re-queen 1/2 each year.
    I do have 1 hive of Cordovan that I got this year and put in a test hive. They are very gentle and productive and a nice golden color to look at. All the neighbors love seeing golden bees in their gardens.


    ------------------
    Clinton Bemrose
    just South of Lansing Michigan

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Post

    >MR Bee,
    What does good/bad parasites have to do with:
    >1) T-mites not a problem from May to Sept - True or False?

    I commented that it's bad timing on the mites part to have a population explosion at the worst time for their host. It's not terribly important since we can't control it, but it is the reason that they are so bad for the bees.

    >2) Treatment during that time is useless?

    I believe they are around all year, otherwise where do they come from? If you kill all of them in the middle of summer where will them come from in the fall? If you fog FGMO all year 'round and there are no mites in the fall then you don't have T-mites to treat with something else.

    >3) Is the best time to treat in September?

    I have never treated for T-mites except with grease patties and FGMO.

    >4) Are treatments in Dec, Jan, Feb effective?

    If we are talking about menthol treatments, which I've never tried, no I don't believe they are because the menthol won't vaporize because of the temperatures.

    >5) Is the paper towel (menthol/oil) method best?

    I've only read about it and never tried it. Also, it's difficult to know from personal experiece, unless you send your bees off to be tested, if you have T-mites. Obviously, since I've never tired it, I think there are better alternatives. Mostly fogging FGMO, small cell bees and T-mite resistant bees (genetics).



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
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    Post

    I'm sure I read somewhere that TM reduces the life of the infected bee, which would account for the winter kills. A great many strains are resistant, and in these cases it is an efficient parasite; it only becomes a problem with susceptible strains.

    ------------------
    Regards,

    Robert Brenchley

    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

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