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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Farmington, North Carolina
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    255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    I wonder if accupuncture points and apitherapy points might be the same in many cases. If so there is a lot of references to accupuncture points on the web and elsewhere.

    Albert
    From what I've read, there are two theories. One is to sting the accupuncture pathways. Two is to sting where it hurts. Some people do a combination of both.
    Susan

  2. #42
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    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wimauma, Florida
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    271

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    Thanks Susan!

    I could see from a therapuetic standpoint how both approaches have validity. One to attack/heal the source directly and the other to assistand stimulate the body to do the same.

    I already have enough on my plate to learn, but this is going to have to fit in. I didn't realize how helpful the stings have been until we communicated about it here. When I mentioned it to my wife, she confirmed that I hadn't complained about my hip for a couple of weeks after the last couple of stings.

    I really hate to sacrifice any of my girls. But the greater good must prevail.

    I'm STILL all for a seperate forum!

    Albert
    September 8th 2007 is National Beekeeping Day
    American Agriculture, its as close as the nearest Honeybee!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

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    I am a little late to this thread but I'll post anyway. I get asked every now and then if I would provide bees for people. I do not support the practice or any beekeeper foolish enough to provide people with a very serious allergen. I have first hand experience with a law suet resaulting from an allergic reaction to a product. It was not bee related, but it was a family business that went bankrupt because of it.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  4. #44
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    Aug 2006
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    Farmington, North Carolina
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    255

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I am a little late to this thread but I'll post anyway. I get asked every now and then if I would provide bees for people. I do not support the practice or any beekeeper foolish enough to provide people with a very serious allergen.
    I can respect that, Bluegrass. We all have to do what we are comfortable with. But there are many "serious allergens." Peanuts, seafood, iodine, all medications.

    Keep in mind that it is only a serious allergen if you are highly allergic to it. Your chances of having an anaphyactic reaction to a honeybee sting are lower than your chance of winning the lottery. Incidentally, I learned this fact from a doctor who spoke at a NC state beekeeper meeting.

    Susan

  5. #45
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    Aug 2006
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    Danbury, CT
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    2,887

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    I think the difference is that with these other allergens there are warnings on the lable. Bees don't come with lables. I personally feel that it is a high risk business practice for the beekeeper. If enough people get into this type of therapy then it is only a matter of time before somebody dies....and that type of news coverage is what we as beekeepers don't need. I will not provide bees and discorage anybody who asks from persuing this type of therapy. I think if it was effective and safe we would have bee venom for sale at the drug store. If I were considering selling bees for this I would be sure to have a disclaimer and know the select few customers I sell to very well.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  6. #46
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    Aug 2006
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    Farmington, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I think the difference is that with these other allergens there are warnings on the lable. Bees don't come with lables. I personally feel that it is a high risk business practice for the beekeeper. If enough people get into this type of therapy then it is only a matter of time before somebody dies....and that type of news coverage is what we as beekeepers don't need. I will not provide bees and discorage anybody who asks from persuing this type of therapy. I think if it was effective and safe we would have bee venom for sale at the drug store. If I were considering selling bees for this I would be sure to have a disclaimer and know the select few customers I sell to very well.
    You're absolutely right - these other things do come with labels. It wasn't always so, though. I agree that if you plan on selling bees for this purpose or if you plan to offer apitherapy that you should have a disclaimer form signed. And probably in most states you can be charged with practice medicine without a license if you charge for actually performing apitherapy on someone unless you are some type of licensed medical provider like a doctor or accupuncturist.

    You actually can buy apitherapy products in some health food stores now. But the reason that you don't see them in mainstream drug stores has nothng to do with the effectiveness or safety of the therapy. It has to do with the effectiveness of pharmaceutical manufacturers at courting doctors and lobbying our US goverment. It would be a real stretch to call many of the drugs that make it to the market safe. The worst of them get pulled from the market, usually within the first year. A few not so quickly. Others remain on the market because they help one problem even though they cause other problems. What happens then? Your doctor puts you on another med or two, and so on, and so on.

    No one is lobbying for bee sting therapy on the same scale as pharmaceutical companies for their cash cow. No one is pursuing doctors, PAs or Nurse Practitioners on behalf of apitherapists like the pharmaceutical reps do for the big drug companies. They have an enormous amount of money to spend to plead their cause. That's why everyone's meds cost so darned much! Rest assured that we have all been duly warned.
    Susan

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    York County, SC
    Posts
    8

    Default Apitherapy Anyone?

    If this has not already been posted by others:

    The American Apitherapy Society International Conference will be held in Raleigh, NC. April 26-29, 2007. To register or receive more information visit www.apitherapy.org or email aasoffice@apitherapy.org. 818-501-0446

    Charles Mraz Apitherapy Course. Apitherapy training focuses on the therapeutic use of products of the beehive: honey, pollen, propolis, royal jelly, and bee venom.

    I attended the NC/SC Spring Beekeeping Conference. The conference had two Apitherapist administering bee venom Apitherapy to over 100 volunteers. I will post a photo, although I don't know how to at this time. This my first post.

    Yikes!

    Steve

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Kernersville, N.C.
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    110

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    I'm attending. Hope to meet some of you there.

    Miles

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chase, BC Canada
    Posts
    57

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    I will not provide bees and discorage anybody who asks from persuing this type of therapy. I think if it was effective and safe we would have bee venom for sale at the drug store.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory and Susan Fariss View Post
    You actually can buy apitherapy products in some health food stores now. But the reason that you don't see them in mainstream drug stores has nothng to do with the effectiveness or safety of the therapy. It has to do with the effectiveness of pharmaceutical manufacturers at courting doctors and lobbying our US goverment. It would be a real stretch to call many of the drugs that make it to the market safe. The worst of them get pulled from the market, usually within the first year. A few not so quickly. Others remain on the market because they help one problem even though they cause other problems. What happens then? Your doctor puts you on another med or two, and so on, and so on.

    No one is lobbying for bee sting therapy on the same scale as pharmaceutical companies for their cash cow. No one is pursuing doctors, PAs or Nurse Practitioners on behalf of apitherapists like the pharmaceutical reps do for the big drug companies. They have an enormous amount of money to spend to plead their cause. That's why everyone's meds cost so darned much! Rest assured that we have all been duly warned.
    Susan
    I agree totally.

    North America is generally several decades behind Europe in the matter of natural therapies. Perhaps it is because we have a stronger pharmaceutical lobby??

    Bee venom has now been for sale in Europe at least since the 1980's, if not longer.
    Last edited by inga; 03-18-2007 at 10:40 AM.
    Inga Anderson

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Falconer, NY
    Posts
    206

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    I used to get migrains. So bad I lost time at work not to mention with the family and bees. At the sugestion of my father, I stung myself in the back of the neck during the middle of one episode. less than 5 minutes I was home free. Over a period of time my migranes have declined to being very rare. I rarely wear protection when I work my bees. If I dont get stung from time to time, i make it a point to sting myself. I dont know what it can or cant do as far as disease goes, but i figure it cant hurt.... (pun intended, sorry).

    tom

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Farmington, North Carolina
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    255

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCBeeBrewer View Post
    If this has not already been posted by others:

    The American Apitherapy Society International Conference will be held in Raleigh, NC. April 26-29, 2007...
    ...I attended the NC/SC Spring Beekeeping Conference. The conference had two Apitherapist administering bee venom Apitherapy to over 100 volunteers. I will post a photo, although I don't know how to at this time. This my first post.

    Yikes!

    Steve
    Welcome, Steve! Some of us were at the meeting in Monroe, NC, that you speak of and got stings there. I would love to go to the classes in Raleigh, but they are so darned expensive that I don't know if I will be able to or not. I will continue my stings though, as long as they are helping my back, neck, shoulder and arm pain. If I go too many days without stings the pain returns. As long as I sting every two to three days, I have no pain and I can do things I have not been able to do in years. (lifting, carrying over 20 lbs, vacuuming)

    Susan

  12. #52
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    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
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    1,083

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    Two years ago I was raving about being pain free because of the bee stings. I ended up in the emergancy room with the beginings a anaphalxis toward the end of that year and became a much more careful beekeeper. As a result I had an extremely bad year with my back. This spring I have a really nasty hive that I won't get rid of because I took 80% losses this winter. They hit me about 25 times about four days ago so I popped some benadryl and still got more pain and swelling than I normally get. Guess what? I am now walking normal and getting out of bed without having to inch myself up. I just need to find some way to ballance the risk with the benifit.
    doug

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wimauma, Florida
    Posts
    271

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    Sierra,

    And I can't even goad my girls to sting me!

    I'm having some difficuty getting the girls to commit Hari-Kiri lately. Ever since I took the gloves and viel off, I haven't been stung. Tommorrow is my last chance for a week or two. I think I'm going to have to get drastic, and actually grab a few and make them sting me. I only wish I could get it someplace other than my hands!

    Regards,
    Albert
    September 8th 2007 is National Beekeeping Day
    American Agriculture, its as close as the nearest Honeybee!

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Grifton, NC
    Posts
    1,302

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    Hey Albert, wait a few months. Maybe the AHB will make it easier tro get stung...Sorry, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
    Banjos and bees... how sweet it is!

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Skull Valley, Az
    Posts
    285

    Default jar application

    So if you've got a bee or two in the glass jar--why not just apply the opened end to the area you hope to sting? Holding one by the wings might cause too much comotion should she escape.

    And yes-balance between benefit and risk is a fine line. With the case of multiple stings.....best to work up to the final number slowly.

    Best of luck to those supplying bees.
    BBZZZZZ

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
    Posts
    4,074

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    Quote Originally Posted by flathead View Post
    I just got a call from someone looking to buy bees from me and then administer himself.

    He has RSD whatever that is and has done this before.

    I want to help him but I not sure of the liability. Told him I would think about it.

    How much would you charge someone for 25 or 30 bees?

    How would you package them so he could get to them one at a time?

    Yes, I would like to see an apitherapy forum.
    RSD is reflex sympithic nerve disorder, which was changed to Complex Regional Pain Syndrome. The following link has more info:

    http://www.rsds.org/2/what_is_rsd_crps/index.html

    I've suffered with this for 18 years following a farm accident. It is not something I would wish on anybody. There are no painkillers that I am aware of that will even touch the pain, and there is no cure. I do feel better after being stung 10 or 15 times, but it only lasts for a few days at a time.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    931

    Default Apitherapist

    Reyah Carlson
    1252 South Marshfield Road
    Bruner MO. 65620 417 278 0127

    This woman Spoke at the Oklahoma State meeting this Saturday very nice woman and very interested in helping people with ailments, She her self has MS and is doing good because of of apitherapy.

    http://www.reyahsbeesness.com

    http://www.apitherapy.org

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Mason, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,015

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    I have 2 diferent ladys that I supplied bees for before I set up 2 hives each. Now I take care of the hives for them. Both lady's have MS. One takes 10 stings a day. When she started 5 years ago she was in a wheel chair and it was paneful for her to move. You would not know her today as the same person because she walks and talks better than me. The other lady has been doing 12 stings a day for 4 years but it has not helped her. Both women have the same doctor and he says that this is not unusual.
    Clint
    Clinton Bemrose<br />just South of Lansing Michigan<br />Beekeeping since 1964

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Farmington, North Carolina
    Posts
    255

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    Quote Originally Posted by flathead View Post
    How much would you charge someone for 25 or 30 bees?

    How would you package them so he could get to them one at a time?
    Did these original questions get answered? If not, here is what I know. There is a Greg Feriss (strange coincidence) that sells bees for apitherapy. Here is a link to his page. http://www.radix.net/~honeybs/

    I don't know if he quotes prices or not, but he has a 1-800-# and may be willing to talk with you about it. I know he has some special cage he has developed that he sends bees in that is supposed to make it easier to care for the bees and access them.

    What my huband Greg and I have done is take a plastic jar and put holes all around the sides of the jar and cut the center out of the plastic lid and fit it with a screen so that the bees get lots of ventilation. Inside, we put a cardboard tube (the inside of a toilet paper roll or half of one from a paper towel) that has a V cut in both sides to minimize the tube rolling around in the jar. We spray water into the jar and drip honey onto the screen every day. Incidentally, we got this method of maintaining the apitherapy bees from Amber Rose's book, Bee in Balance.

    When Greg is going to administer my stings, he sprays the bees with water which keeps them from flying. Then he takes long tweezers and picks them up by the head and stings me in the appropriate place. While he is getting each bee, I am applying ice to the area to be stung.

    When its time to get more bees from the hive, Greg has a large funnel he made that fits into the jar. After making sure he doesn't have the queen, he just shakes bees from a frame into the funnel and they fall right into the jar.

    Susan

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ozark, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    9

    Big Grin Reyah Stings me

    Quote Originally Posted by Velbert View Post
    Reyah Carlson
    1252 South Marshfield Road
    Bruner MO. 65620 417 278 0127

    This woman Spoke at the Oklahoma State meeting this Saturday very nice woman and very interested in helping people with ailments, She her self has MS and is doing good because of of apitherapy.

    http://www.reyahsbeesness.com

    http://www.apitherapy.org
    Reyah stings me and is very knowledgable(sp) I have MS and I am now living pain free after years of pain killers and muscle relaxers that make me a zombie. I now am able to actually have a life and enjoy myself. The reason BVT is not researched is like someone said follow the money trail. My meds were over 3000 a month that the Department of Veterans Affairs (aka you taxpayers) were paying for and i still had alot of pain. now I am pain free except for a bad day everyonce in awhile.
    2nd Year in Beekeeping

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