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Thread: Foundation?

  1. #1
    BILLY BOB Guest

    Question

    Does anyone know of a web sight that I can find a machine to make my own foundation.

    Thanks
    Billy Bob

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    I had Tom Industries info on the web but cannot find it right now. Tom has ads in the ABJ. He is the only mill maker in the US that I know of. Will e-mail Barry to post the info here.

    Clay

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,420

    Wink

    Hi -

    Clay forgot how smart he really is!
    http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000016.html

    -Barry

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    philippines
    Posts
    4

    Post

    hi, i just joined the forum. i am a beekeeper from the far east. i acquired a toms foundation mill from a friend last year. i started making my own foundations recently. my problem is my bees dont seem to like drawing the foundation, and not do anything with the foundation they even destroy it. I use beeswax cappings, i follow all the procedures that i got information from. cleaning and melting etc.. i use dipping boards etc..
    Our beeswax foundation is darker than what i have been using. I have been importing wax foundation from australia for many years.
    I need help on this quickly. brood rearing has started in Northern Philippines. and I used up my last stocks of imported foundation.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi,
    i acquired a toms foundation mill from a friend last year.

    reply:

    What is the cell size of the mill? Are the cells from the mill 4.9mm, 5.2mm, or 5.4mm? this will have and effect on the acceptance.
    Is your wax source pure (no other wax added)?
    What is the cell size of the Austrailian foundation? What race of bee do you use in the Philippines? To measure the cell size measure across 10 cells from the inside wall to the outside wall of the 10th cell and divide by 10.

    I'm guessing here but I thinking that your Austrailian foundation is 5.4 or more cell sizing. Toms sizing is probably 4.9 or 5.2 cell sizing. If so this will cause serious transition combs and problems. Color of the wax shouldn't make any difference. I think the bees like the darker wax personally its just not as appealing to the purchaser. You may have to make a choice of cell size as the bees will not be able to handle both. As a US beekeeper I'd go for the smallest sizing. I seems there is a relationship between large cells and parasitic mites.

    Do you have parasitic mite problems over there? Under POV read Dee and Ed Lusby's BACK TO BIOLOGICAL BEEKEEPING. It has good info on milling foundation and how not to stretch the cell size as you mill.

    regards,

    Clay


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    philippines
    Posts
    4

    Post


    quote:

    [bold] Mabuhay, Clay

    i acquired a toms foundation mill from a friend last year. [/bold]


    reply: I is a motor driven toms foundation mill. my friend purchase it in 1984. He used it for awhile and was kept in storage for a long time. I got foundations from him in the past and there was no problem bees work the foundation right away. my beekeeper friend past away few years back.

    [bold]What is the cell size of the mill? Are the cells from the mill 4.9mm, 5.2mm, or 5.4mm? this will have and effect on the acceptance.[/bold]

    reply: is there a way of knowing. does the roller molds have specs in it. this i will check.

    [bold]Is your wax source pure (no other wax added)?[/bold]


    reply: yes, most of the wax are from the cappings.


    [bold]What is the cell size of the Austrailian foundation?[/bold]


    reply: I raise european honey bees so the size should be the standard ones yes.


    [bold] What race of bee do you use in the Philippines?[/bold]


    reply: apis mellifera/carnica. i have been raising my queens for sometime now.For a while i imported queens from Rice of australia, kona queens from gus rouse, and sometimes i got from glens in california. for the past 10 years i use locally raise queens and every 3rd season i bring in new queens to improve our genetic make-up. There are only about 3,000 colonies spread throughout 7,000 islands in the Philippines.


    [bold]To measure the cell size measure across 10 cells from the inside wall to the outside wall of the 10th cell and divide by 10.[/bold]

    reply: its 5.4 mm. base on your advice.


    [bold]I'm guessing here but I thinking that your Austrailian foundation is 5.4 or more cell sizing. Toms sizing is probably 4.9 or 5.2 cell sizing. If so this will cause serious transition combs and problems. Color of the wax shouldn't make any difference. I think the bees like the darker wax personally its just not as appealing to the purchaser.[/bold]


    reply: ok. would adding a percentage of paraffin wax let say 30-40% spell a difference even in acceptance. beeswax foundation is expensive in the Philippines.

    [bold] You may have to make a choice of cell size as the bees will not be able to handle both. As a US beekeeper I'd go for the smallest sizing. I seems there is a relationship between large cells and parasitic mites.[/bold]

    reply k.ever sice i started raising bees in the Philippines 22 years ago, varroa mites and predator birds that feed on bees were the biggest problem. even before mites hit western countries mites was the biggest problem of beekeepers that raise european honeybees. many of things journals right about are something i was familiar with, from screen bottoms boards to slip sticky boards, we tried tobacco, neem tree extracts guava, local herbs, to control mites in the past. now with more research and information available because we are better in controlling the mites. beekeeping has a big potential here. honey is very expensive.

    thanks , toby
    [bold]Do you have parasitic mite problems over there? Under POV read Dee and Ed Lusby's BACK TO BIOLOGICAL BEEKEEPING. It has good info on milling foundation and how not to stretch the cell size as you mill.

    regards,

    Clay[/bold]

    reply:


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi,

    From the sounds of it you shouldn't be having much cell size conflict as far as I can tell.

    ok. would adding a percentage of paraffin wax let say 30-40% spell a difference even in acceptance. beeswax foundation is expensive in the Philippines.

    reply:

    No don't add other waxes, you will end up with serious acceptance problems. Also the wax could never be sold as beeswax as it wouldn't be pure anymore.

    Let me ask some other questions about your milling process. What are you using for a release agent on the wax sheets? Did your friend put some sort of oil bees would find objectionable to store the mill that you aren't aware of that may affect acceptance? In your water dipping container is there anything else in there, chlorine, iodine , ect? Just looking for other possible sources of a problem.

    Clay


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    philippines
    Posts
    4

    Post

    thank you again, i cleaned the mill very well and no substance was use to keep the molder during storage. i used soapy water( baby shampoo) so foundation won't stick to the molder. I wash the finished foundation with clean water after every procedure.

    added info. some of the foundation that the bees have drawn were spotty. only certain portions of the foundation was touch. in they ignored the foundation completely.

    thanks again and more power.
    toby

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    philippines
    Posts
    4

    Post

    greetings!

    I found the problem, i needed to make measurement adjustments on the foundation mill. the bees really wanted to draw the wax foundation. the embossing wasn't clear enough for the bees though. I was worried not to adjust the rollers too close. When we did 4 dips with the dipping board the embossing was very clear. the wax sheet wasn't thick enough. but i needed to save some wax and wanted to make more foundations from beeswax i had.
    so i mayde some adjustments and got the correct measurements. we are back to doing 3 dips per foundation.

    thanks
    toby.

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