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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    collinsville,ms,usa
    Posts
    111

    Post

    hi all, just got my power on and checking on things. i have been real busy getting water and sewer pumps back on here in meridian m.s.we got hit bad this time, we usually get so so weather 3 weeks clean up & back to noraml. not this time, out of town people that have lost everything are every where. no gas water power phones, stores with out food.by thursday we had water back to all city, i still have sewer running down the streets in many parts of city, you guys keep on praying for people down this way.aqlso my bees did well only lost 2 hives, thanks
    http//www.DeansHoney.notlong.com[/url]

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Wyoming MN
    Posts
    406

    Post

    Well, Minnesota is stepping to the plate. Cops on the way from Hennepin County,with people from St. Paul and Mpls. soon to follow.
    Sounds like they will relocate at least 5000 from NO to Camp Ripley in central MN until they can assimilate into surrounding communities. Ripley is a Guard Base, one that was potentially on the list to be closed.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Good to hear my state of birth is stepping up. I've archery hunted at Ripley. Beautiful country in there.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    1,933

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    White County, Arkansas
    Posts
    874

    Post

    You and me both Sundance. But my raising and hunting was between Montevideo and Clinton.
    The proffessionals (-1 sp) here in Arkansas are stepping up also. We have quite a few folks that want to open their houses to Katrina victim families as does my brother in-law in Oklahoma City.
    Not everyone knows who to contact, I've been recommending Red Cross and Salvation Army as well as UMCOR and their local churches.
    David

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    It is good to see the best of this counry stepping up to fill the void.

    This should ease the backlash here and abroad on the initial slow response.

    The time for finger pointing and blame is not now and my hope is the media shifts its' focus on the wonderful and positive things happening.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,340

    Post

    >my hope is the media shifts its' focus on the wonderful and positive things happening.

    That would be unprecedented.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    Unprecedented, maybe,but we can still hope. I'm with you, Sundance.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    waco, tx
    Posts
    528

    Post

    Hi All

    Just read this whole thread; hard to remember all I read but I believe there were a coupla mentions of list members headed to the gulf coast? I can't offer much but if any forum members are passing thru central TX & need an overnight stop about 500 miles from NO I can offer a bedroom for an overnight stop. Just send me a PM.

    Lew in Waco

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    White County, Arkansas
    Posts
    874

    Post

    One thing we learned yesterday at church from evacuees from the storm is that if you're going down to help take gas with you, alot of it. We have two trucks heading down and they are taking about four hundred gallons with them for down and back. The storm also devestated a whole lot more and quite a ways further north than the press I've seen is talking about. This one really creamed the southern part of this GREAT COUNTRY! Good luck and God speed to all who are heading down to help!

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    waco, tx
    Posts
    528

    Post

    Don't know how much help it is but http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/gasoline_CF.cfm?state=ALL shows prices/availibility at all Flying J truck stops; updated daily at 6AM pacific time.

    Lew

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    133

    Post

    I think we could have done much better, but to lay all of this in the president's lap is not fair.

    First it seems that all we want to do is want the feds to bail us out. We can't do anything for ourselves, we must have the feds do it for us. We can't have a disaster plan for ourselves, nor allocate the money to keep the levee in repair like we were told we needed to, or organize relief efforts ourselves, the feds have to do it for us.

    The purpose of FEMA is not to take over and control disaster response its purpose is to assist the local efforts. Could FEMA have done better, yes. I think some heads will role over this. The issue is that the democrats controlling the state of Louisianna knew about the problem with the levee but refused to allocate the funds to repair it, using the funds elsewhere and now want to blame Bush for their neglegence. What is disgusting is the democrats using this for political gain instead of caring about the victims. These people are below contempt. Where is the responsibility of the mayor of N.O. and the governor of the State in all of this?

    As one poster remarked, Bush was on top of things, he had all the communications he needed to reach the world and the entire government from his ranch and he was closer to the problem in Crawford than he would be in D.C. Anyone who thinks Bush would just be out playing golf or something else instead of dealing with the situation, simply does not know our president. Anyone who knows the president knows what a caring person he is.

    If Bush can be faulted for anything its not letting people know what he's doing. Bush just works and doesn't like to brag about it like Clinton did.

    One thing I'm proud of is the response of the American people. I'm especially proud of the churches and synagoges throughout the country and all they are doing to help. We are just getting ready to send a truck out tonight with tons of baby formula, diapers and wipes.

    I would like to sponsor a family myself, we have the room. How do I get in touch with someone who could give me info on how to do it?

    Ron
    Butterchurn<br /><br />Diplomacy is the art of saying \'Nice doggie\' until you can find a rock. <br /><br />Will Rogers

  13. #93
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Post

    Someone described a horse show as : "a bunch of horses asses looking at a bunch of horses' asses." The head of FEMA, Mr Brown, was once the room-mate of the last head of FEMA. His last, and reportedly his highest, position was as a commissioner in the Arabian horse club. SO... the man in charge was once in charge of a bunch of horses asses and he lived up to his potential. Bush chose him and needs to take responsibility for him.

    Dickm

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Oceano, California, USA
    Posts
    467

    Post

    Ron, there are a number of site that match people with extra space and those needing it. One such is:

    http://www.hurricanehousing.org/?TM

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Oceano, California, USA
    Posts
    467

    Post

    "I love America...where else on earth can people open up like this in a public forum without being hunted down by the government for speaking thier minds and magically disappearing off of the face of the earth?"

    Some of you really need to get out more.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Wyoming MN
    Posts
    406

    Post

    Ron, if you have metro phone- dial 211, the United Way helpline is working as a clearing house for hurricane related inquiries. I don't know if it works outside the metro though. There is also a state hotline- 651-297-1304, or 800-657-3504. See if either of these numbers work.

    I really can't help but think that all this fussing about relief not moving fast enough is unrealistic. We as citizens should be individually prepared to last for a couple days anyhow. How many in the north can survive for days if the snow gets too deep? We couldn't start evacuating until the storm stopped, and then it takes some time to assess the situation. There is no way-realistically-that we could evacuate any large city in this country as fast as they think we should. Just look at the rush hour in and out on any metro freeway.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    ChellesBees, AMEN

    Dickm, take it to tailgator, it's been said there already.

    Tlm, it does happen in other countries, just like he says. He's only wrong in thinking it doesn't happen here.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Plano, North Texas
    Posts
    318

    Post

    I'm with Butterchurn on the responsibility thing. My opinion is:

    1. Nobody is ever prepared for a disaster. I worked in the cleanup in Okla. City after that big multi-twister a few years ago and nobody there was prepared, even though it is the corner of Main and Center Streets in Tornado Alley. I frankly admit that I am unprepared for the same, even though I live in a tornado-prone area. I know what to do and I keep a 72 hour kit, but I don't have a tornado shelter and a direct hit would be a disaster for me.

    2. When all communication is gone, as happened in N.O., you can't coordinate relief because you don't have a way to contact people and determine who is in need.

    3. Responsibility for all things follows a distinct progression that goes something like this:
    a. Help yourself. (IMHO, this includes prayer and divine guidance)
    b. Help from your family.
    c. Help from your local community. I understand that N.O. has an emergency flood plan and that the mayor did not follow it.
    d. Help from your state Gov't.
    e. Help from your national Gov't.
    f. Help from the U.N. (but don't hold your breath)

    Locally, Dallas is receiving lots of evacuees and putting them into every kind of building that can be found. One of my friends has 12 refugees living with him. They are employees (with families) of his bro-in-law and he has known them for some time. The group includes 5 teenage boys, so his grocery bill is going to be interesting, and our church is assisting in that. He was told to expect to house them for up to 6 months. They were in the Superdome and they are telling some scary stories. They say that the officials who were in charge were there during the hurricane, but then went home for a break. By the time they tried to return, they couldn't get back because of the flooding so anarchy set in. They said they'd have to hit the floor every 10-15 minutes when gunfire broke out. Nobody stepped up to the plate to designate bathroom areas, so everybody went wherever they could find a semi-private corner and pretty soon every corner had been semi-private at one time or another. Since they were isolated, people who needed medicines couldn't get it. And keep in mind, that these are the people that were known to be there and in need. They got help first. There were hundreds of places with groups of people in designated shelters and nobody knows what was happening in them because there is no communication with them.

    I have another friend who is a V.P. of Greyhound Buslines and is responsible for New Orleans. That has been an adventure. First, they have 220 employees that they have not had any contact with. Second, they gathered as many of their N.O. employees as they could find and had them gather with their families at their depot, where they all got on buses to go North and set up a temporary depot to serve their routes during the storm. Good move, but all their cars are back in N.O. and the water was 18 feet deep in the parking lot. Third, they have 114 buses dedicated to evacuating refugees, but the big, overriding obstacle was communications. You just couldn't talk to anybody. Cell towers shorted out. Land lines shorted out. Ambulances have satellite phones, but they reserve them for their emergency use and there aren't enough of them in place. Only a few locations with refugees were known outside N.O. So they'd send a bus in to pick up people, and tell the driver to try to spot other people for the next bus. That means it was hit or miss at best, but it was the best they could do.

    At our local church, we were told that the immediate need is for cash. Not goods! Goods require manpower to sort and distribute and it is much less efficient than simply buying what is needed. Also, we were told to NOT go down to N.O. Anybody going down there just adds to the burden of housing, feeding, and supplying all the needs of a huge population without an infrastructure. And finally, we were told that we should be prepared to provide relief support for an extended period of time - 6 months or more. We expect we'll be involved in the cleanup there similarly to what we did in Okla. City, which was sifting through rubble and making 3 piles: garbage (very large pile), salvageable materials (small pile), and personal/valuable items (handkerchief-size pile). We do maintain semi-trailers equipped with water treatment units, food, tents, and sanitation kits. We sent those down to La. immediately and they will stay until there is no more need for them.

    We are also dealing with lots of people who want to accept evacuees into their homes. This is a scary proposition. I had to deny one woman who is single with 3 small children. How could we let her accept strangers into her home and have any kind of assurance that she would be safe? No way! Not for a long-term commitment like this one. When there is a man in the house it is only a little better. It will happen as we move forward, but only as we identify and assess the people who need help. Some evacuees will never be safely housed in volunteer homes. For now, the public shelters provide for their basic needs. Long term we will find a way to help them all.

    Looking at the above, it might sound like I am in charge of something, but I'm not. I am involved, but no more than hundreds of other people in the community. Going back to the responsibility chart above, we are an extended level c. We are the local community, even though N.O. is hundreds of miles away.
    "Before I speak, I have something I'd like to say. . . . I will try to keep this short as long as I can." Yogi Berra

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Lockport, LA 70374 also on the new map
    Posts
    46

    Post

    Interesting reading strident and shrill comments from aound the country from folks who have little or no knowledge of the geography,geology, politics, lifestyles, attidudes, culture??? of living in South " French " Louisiana. As opposed to living in the Northern part of Louisiana which is really North of Interstate 10 and part of the rest of the redneck south who really don't count for much. We down here, in South Louisiana, are Cajuns, a different breed and some of us are beekeepers, namely me.

    First we have 35 % Blacks here in the State and that translates into a large population of poor folks. Poor, uneducated, unsophisticated, uninterested in education and unable to realize that education is the key to upward mobility. I live around, at times worked with, drank with, conversed with, had Black employees, and generally have had good relations with but I don't seek to get overly involved with them. They are very limited, even the educated ones.

    If TV viewers would have taken note of the assembly of souls at the collection points or safe havens in New Orleans, they would or will see many women with many children and very few men hovering around. Virtually all are single mothers and some as young as 16 or even younger. One girl, 19, featured in a newspaper article, lost one of her kids, somewhere. Seems like the girl has 4 kids, 4 years old to 2 months old, all done before the ripe age of 19.

    I would say that most of the people you all saw on TV, trapped in the Dome and convention center were on some form of goverment assistance. Most live in projects " public housing " or on some sort of rent assisted programs.

    I wont belabor the point but suffice it to say that all those people are hardly in any financial position to be able to displace themselves even if they wanted too.

    There is a serious crime problem in New Orleans. In the general population, the school system, the sewerage and water board, the 7 tax assessors office, the district attorneys office,the mayors office, the regional transit authority and... corruption is a way of life.
    There is a drug problem, a pothole problem, a sanitaion problem, taxicab problem, very serious school problem, and well... Not unlike most of all large cities in this country.

    The current Mayor is, so far, uncontaminated by corruption but his term is not up, yet.

    The city, New Orleans proper, the old city, is always in dire straights for funds to operate the city and has no spare money to finance evacuations for anyone and by law is not permitted to do so even if they wanted too. To think that an exodus of the city could have been accomplished using the school bus we see on TV, under water, is wishful thinking. School busses do not hold much fuel and those busses are probably not in the best of condition seeing as they belong to the New Orleans school system and an evacuation using them would have been a dangerous undertaking.

    The protection of the city, or low lying areas, has been a works in progress since 1965 or after Hurricane Betsy. Since the wherewithal, the funds, must come from the Feds there are of course competing needs from all of your individual states also wanting funds for this and that. It's our way of doing things in this Democratic system in which we live and if you all would sit back and think things through about how we do things with our political dispensation you should be able to come to realize that if we had " good goverment " we would not like it maybe.

    Where was I during the BLOW? About 35 miles, as the crow flies, due west from New Orleans. My wife and I stayed put,IN OUR HOUSE, I, by choice, she against my advice, but we rode it out. The Katrina winds were around 100 mph or so and the old homestead did good. However after I was convinced the the storm would proceed on the predicted path, I was convinced that we would be OK. We were on the west side, left side or good side of the storm's wrath. We are not prone to flodding around our house being 3 or 4 feet above sea and forty or so miles inland from the Gulf. Had I been faced with different circumstances I would have reacted accordingly. I have never left home for past storms but I take them as the come and would leave evecuate if I felt the situation too risky. So far I have come out OK. I would not have stuck around in the MS coast for this one however. I have vision of Hurricane Camille's destruction in 1969, which I observed shortly after, and the MS coast is not a good place to be. The destruction is more intense this time around simply because there was more to destroy after all the development since 1969. Progress you know..

    I am also confident in our current weather reporting system and find it to be accurate and consistant but it is not an exact science.

    The geography and geology. This terrain in South LA does not allow for travel at random or in most any direction as can be done in most parts of the country. We must travel on the roads and there are few going into New Orleans. Actually there are four,all close together, with I 10 providing entrance and exit from east and west. All of the roads are prone to flooding depending on the tides and winds. You cannot use all terrain vehicles and set off cross country as you can in other parts of the country. One can go by water but most folks are not equipped, mentally, and physically to handle boats so that is not a viable alernative.

    People live where they want too live, it's their property and we have this sacred concept of " property rights " in this country. I could cite many examples of people living in precarious places in this country so New Orleans is not an exception.

    As far as the relief effort I see it as par for the course. I spent 22 years in the US Army and I can say with some authority that large operations just do not jump up and start running. The Army is a top down command, orders are given and obeyed. Whereas we have a political structure in the civil world that we have elected and the elected are who they are, good and bad. The pols have egos, are power hungry, love their asses being kissed, do not like to cede control of their domains, and are novices mostly when it comes to an event like Katrina. Personally I think we see the response as pretty normal, so take heed. You, as a responsible person, form your own rescue plan for your own circumstances, and don't wait for someone too bail you out in event of any adverse circumstances in your lives

    Oh, my bees, came through fine but I took protective measures. A fellow beek didn't and his hives were knocked down/blown over. Mine were well protected and hardly missed whatever beats bees beat on.

    Richard Parr Lockport, LA.
    JB

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Lockport, LA 70374 also on the new map
    Posts
    46

    Post

    Interesting reading strident and shrill comments from around the country from folks who have little or no knowledge of the geography,geology, politics, lifestyles, attidudes, culture??? of living in South " French " Louisiana. As opposed to living in the Northern part of Louisiana which is really North of Interstate 10 and part of the rest of the redneck south who really don't count for much. We down here, in South Louisiana, are Cajuns, a different breed and some of us are beekeepers, namely me.

    First we have 35 % Blacks here in the State and that translates into a large population of poor folks. New Orleans is 65 % Black, many are poor, uneducated, unsophisticated, uninterested in education and unable to realize that education is the key to upward mobility,or so it seems. I live around, at times worked with, drank with, conversed with, had Black employees,had them steal from me, but generally have had good relations with them. However I don't seek to get overly involved with them. They are very limited, even the educated ones.

    If TV viewers would have taken note of the assembly of souls at the collection points or safe havens in New Orleans, they should have seen many women with many children and very few men hovering around. Virtually all are single mothers and some as young as 16 or even younger. One girl, 19, featured in a local newspaper article, lost one of her kids, somewhere. Seems like the girl has 4 kids, 4 years old to 2 months old, all done before the ripe age of 19.The girl is not an unusual execption. Black men pop and hop.

    I would say that most of the people you all saw on TV, trapped in the Dome and convention center were on some form of goverment assistance. Most live in projects " public housing " or on some sort of rent assisted programs. Or they live one on top of the other in a family members house. There is NO SPARE MONEY for evacuations. Now the taxpayers have to further provide for them and probably far into the future.

    I wont belabor the point but suffice it to say that all those people are hardly in any financial position to be able to displace themselves even if they wanted too.

    There is a serious crime problem in New Orleans. In the general population, the school system, the sewerage and water board, the 7 tax assessors office, the district attorneys office,the mayors office, the regional transit authority and... corruption is a way of life.
    There is a drug problem, a pothole problem, a sanitaion problem, taxicab problem, very serious school problem, and well... Not unlike most of all large cities in this country.

    The current Mayor is, so far, uncontaminated by corruption but his term is not up, yet.

    The city, New Orleans proper, the old city, is always in dire straights for funds to operate the city and has no spare money to finance evacuations for anyone and by law is not permitted to do so even if they wanted too. To think that an exodus of the city could have been accomplished using the school bus we see on TV, under water, is wishful thinking. School busses do not hold much fuel and those busses are probably not in the best of condition seeing as they belong to the New Orleans school system and an evacuation using them would have been a dangerous undertaking.

    The state has a huge medicaid liability also. Poor people are unhealthy people generally.

    The protection of the city, or low lying areas, has been a works in progress since 1965 or after Hurricane Betsy. Since the wherewithal, the funds, must come from the Feds there are of course competing needs from all of your individual states also wanting funds for this and that. It's our way of doing things in this Democratic system in which we live and if you all would sit back and think things through about how we do things with our political dispensation you should be able to come to realize that if we had " good goverment " we would not like it, maybe.

    Where was I during the BLOW? About 35 miles, as the crow flies, due west from New Orleans. My wife and I stayed put,IN OUR HOUSE, I, by choice, she against my advice, but we rode it out. The Katrina winds were around 100 mph or so and the old homestead did good. However after I was convinced the the storm would proceed on the predicted path, I was convinced that we would be OK. We were on the west side, left side or good side of the storm's wrath. We are not prone to flodding around our house being 3 or 4 feet above sea and forty or so miles inland from the Gulf. Had I been faced with different circumstances I would have reacted accordingly. I have never left home for past storms but I take them as the come and would evecuate if I felt the situation too risky. So far I have come out OK. I would not have stuck around in the MS coast for this one however. I have vision of Hurricane Camille's destruction in 1969, which I observed shortly after, and the MS coast was not a good place to be. The destruction is more intense this time around simply because there was more to destroy after all the development since 1969. Progress you know..

    I am also confident in our current weather reporting system and find it to be accurate and consistant but it is not an exact science.

    The geography and geology. This terrain in South LA does not allow for travel at random or in most any direction as can be done in most parts of the country. We must travel on the roads and there are few going into New Orleans. Actually there are four,all close together, with I 10 providing entrance and exit from east and west. All of the roads are prone to flooding depending on the tides and winds. You cannot use all terrain vehicles and set off cross country as you can in other parts of the country. One can go by water but most folks are not equipped, mentally, and physically to handle boats so that is not a viable alernative.

    People live where they want too live, it's their property and we have this sacred concept of " property rights " in this country. I could cite many examples of people living in precarious places in this country so New Orleans is not an exception.

    As far as the relief effort I see it as par for the course. I spent 22 years in the US Army and I can say with some authority that large operations just do not jump up and start running. The Army is a top down command, orders are given and obeyed. Whereas we have a political structure in the civil world that we have elected and the elected are who they are, good and bad. The pols have egos, are power hungry, love their asses being kissed, do not like to cede control of their domains, and are novices mostly when it comes to an event like Katrina. Personally I think we see the response as pretty normal, so take heed. You, as a responsible person, form your own rescue plan for your own circumstances, and don't wait for someone too bail you out in event of any adverse circumstances in your lives

    Oh, my bees, came through fine but I took protective measures. A fellow beek didn't and his hives were knocked down/blown over. Mine were well protected and hardly missed whatever beats bees beat on.

    Richard Parr Lockport, LA.
    JB

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