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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,082

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    What common sense would dictate would be a fifty mile zone along every coast that is free of any buildings. But that won't happen either. I feel for the victims of this hurricane, but I can't feel sorry for their ignorance of nature for building in such a spot to begin with. Or for rebuilding after a distaster such as this one. People do stupid things, people die because of it, it's that simple. Maybe next time a manditory evcuation is issued, everyone will leave.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sawyer, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,118

    Post

    I will never complain about blizzards, snow and cold again. Compared to what people are suffering with Katrina, old man winter seems like a boy scout. I have family in Florida, and my brother wishes he stayed in Michigan.
    The Busy Bee teaches two lessons: One is not to be idle and the other is not to get stung.

  3. #23

    Post

    I think JP lives in Metairie or somewhere near there. Sure hope he is okay.

    JP, if you see this note and were evacuated from N.O. Metro or affected areas and need a place to stay, give me a call at 225-803-5406 or drop me an email. I can cram you in with my coworker and his family/pets who were evacuated out of Slidell last Saturday. I still have no power at my home and I imagine it may be a week or so more.

    I do have a generator, a few fans, propane grill, and ice is just becoming available in Baton Rouge, so the adult bevarages can be consumed ice cold from the coolers rather than hot.

    As for me, my beekeeping adventure may be delayed well into 2006 or 2007. Need the power company and an arborist to remove 2 large trees overhanging the powerlines in my backyard first. I am just one of millions of folks needing trees and limbs cut and removed. Guess I could move the hive at a later date.

    Personally, I can't see how N.O. could ever be completely rebuilt. So many lost so much (home, business, possessions, & paycheck). I-10 btwn N.O. and Slidell was completely butchered too. Guess the damage could have been much worse if N.O. took a direct hit or the eye was on the west side of the city. Although, I will try to be optimistic that it will be re-built.

    Need some firewood??
    James Henderson
    Golden Delight Honey; 225-803-5406 (cell)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,183

    Post

    Sorry to hear your plight James........... I feel kinda helpless up here......... seriously thought about hoping in my car and going down to help. I have little $$$ but want to help.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Georgia mountains
    Posts
    923

    Post

    Bruce, I'm probably heading down that way tomorrow...I don't have any money, but I've got a chainsaw and a brain...maybe I can use both to help...or at least the chainsaw.

    BubbaBob

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Francisco Eastbay, CA
    Posts
    203

    Post

    Peggam,

    A lot of people are so poor they did'nt have the money or cars to leave. Also this city was built along time before the current residents.
    I think you are being a little harsh [img]tongue.gif[/img]
    \"I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree<br />And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made<br />nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee<br />and live alone in the bee-loud glade.\"<br />-- WB Yeats

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    Murphy, have you been there? Do you know how really poor? I have. I do. Many moved up in the world when they went to the superdome. They will be in "tall cotton" when they get to the astrodome. Actually have more then one meal a day, running water, toilet paper on a roll. Many things that they didn't have before.
    I'm not taking Peggjam's, or the opposite side, I'm just telling it like it is.

    Still, I am worried sick about my friends I left when I moved to NC. I'll certainly be glad when they get it cleaned up enough for me to go down and see how many friends I have lost.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Francisco Eastbay, CA
    Posts
    203

    Post

    Yes I have been there many times. It is just sad to hear about all these people basically been left to fend for themselves. I have friends there as well. I hope your friends are ok.
    I am sorry, but the Feds are doing a lousy job on this.
    Murphy
    \"I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree<br />And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made<br />nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee<br />and live alone in the bee-loud glade.\"<br />-- WB Yeats

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    So what's new? When have the feds done a good job??????

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
    Posts
    4,082

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    Murphy:

    Sorry, but I'm not harsh enough. Yes they are poor people, no money, no car. But if they are cabable of the massive looting they are doing, then they had the ability to leave before the storm. And in reality my comments are directed at the officials of NO who did nothing to get the ones out that wanted to leave. We all knew the potantional danger days before Katrina hit, and yet they did nothing. Bush should have mobilized distaster relief days before the storm hit. We knew it was going to be bad. Big deal, he cut his vacation short 2 days. Congress can reconvine for sessions to pass a law for Karen Shivio, but can't for this distaster?? What is wrong with this picture?? The help should have been there days ago, not just getting started. This is just starting. Major supply lines that run through that area are disrupted, and it's not just gas and oil, it's food, coffee, and this nations ability to import and export commidities such as grains, bannas, 3% of the poultry raised in this country is from the affected area. It will not just be their problem soon, it will be all of our problem. If you think the spike in gas is bad, wait till everything else starts going up. This is bad.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,183

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    Heck Bush didn't go to the White House til' yesterday!

  12. #32
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    Jun 2005
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    Greensboro, N.C.
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    Peggjam, I agree with most, but not the time. Saturday morning, 48 hours prior to hit, the weather man was saying catagory 1 hitting Fla. panhandle. LA and MISS. had very little warning.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,082

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    Katrina hit the FL panhandle on Aug 25, passed over land within 8 hours and begain to restrenghten immidiately. It was forcast to make landfall as a cat 5 on Sat, and they pretty much knew that it would hit in the MS, LA area by Sat. I watched this storm develop and tracked it from start to finish over the course of it's two week life. They had plenty of time to make some real plans, and failed to do it. When a manaditory evucation is issued, then it should mean that everyone leaves, and is provided with the means to do so. The people who choose to stay not only put their lives at risk, but also risk the lives of the people who have to rescue them from their own stupidity.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    9,183

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    I agree with peggjam and I too watched this develop.

    What is distressing is that hurricaines are not an anomally in the gulf..... There should have been a system in place at least has strong as Homeland Security......

    Response time has been horrible...

    And for a President to be sitting in freakin Texas until yesterday is just........ wrong!

    I don't care if he works there. As president in times of tragedy you get to the helm!! Not sit in Crawford or in a classroon reading "My Pet Goat".

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
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    Peggjam, Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but they moved the panhandle WAY north of Miami.

    It hit Miami the 25th,Thursday, as a cat 1. They predicted it to hit the panhandle as the same until Saturday, when they decided it was going to pick up speed and head west. Even then, they said cat 3. I do believe they finally started saying cat 4 or cat 5 Saturday night or sunday.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,082

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    Ya, iddee, it was Miami, I stand corrected. They forecast a cat 5 around noon sat. But they still had 48 hours to impliment real plans for NO. They didn't. From some of the reports I have heard some of the people started leaving NO early on sat, one that was interviewed was up at 4am and out of the city by 6am. They knew it would be bad, and they knew it before noon sat. Sooo...I guess there was plenty of time to get everyone out.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

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    So now you agree, it was Saturday before they knew. Now, even if all tried to go, how long do you think it would take to evacuate all the people from mobile to St. Charles, La. Think a little, Peggjam, it would take 30 days or more if they knew where to take them, which they didn't. No way it's going to happen in two or three days. Besides, many, many, many, would refuse to leave and scream police brutality and police state, and suits by the thousands if it had not been disastrous. Think about foresight, it's never as clear as hindsight.
    All that said, I agree with you that it could have been handled better.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    If you read my previous posts, I stated that it was sat when they forecast cat 5, I've said that in the two privious posts. I don't believe that they could not have evcuated the city of NO within 48 hours, in fact they should have started as soon as the forecast track showed NO as a possible landfall. I am not sure where you get the idea that it would take 30 days to do the job. If 75000 left each day it would only take 10 days. As far as those who refuse to go, they shouldn't expect someone to rescue them and risk their lives to do it. People do stupid things, people die, it's that simiple. Manditory evucation means just that, you leave. Had they been forcably removed, would they be any the worse for wear now, they certainly wouldn't be stranded, or dead. They wouldn't need to have a massive effort to have supplies brought in to keep them alive.
    Most of what I have heard is that alot of people wanted to leave, but didn't have the resoureses to do so, which should have been provided by the government. It is why we pay taxes, so that our government can help people when they can't help themselves. This whole thing is a sad way to see the limits of what our government is willing to do for the common good of all citizins of this country.

    peggjam
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
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    5,080

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    You must only be talking about NO. What about the rest of the coast? Should they not be evaced also. 750,000 won't even touch the number of people that got hit. Also, you are talking as if all are able to walk to a vehicle, sit in a seat, ETC. It would take more then the 10 days to evac the infirm alone, much less the semi infirm and healthy. It was just an impossible task. But I still agree with you that it could have been done better, and I'm sure it would have been if it could have been planned with hindsight rather then foresight.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    9,183

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    Not minimizing the rest of the coast...... they are suffering.

    But when a city is below sea level and a hurricane of any size is tracking toward you....... you evacuate.

    Yes they had time....... Do you think the banks and casinos didn't get their cash out???

    Even if they had a weeks notice there would have been lots of people who would stay behind.

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