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Thread: old combs

  1. #21
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    Smile

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Barry:

    hello barry, do you purchase foundation, or raw beeswax from beekeeping suppliers? well guess what your buying beeswax with all of the chemicals used to surpress varroa already contaminating your beeswax. and one more question, why are your bees becoming resistant to apstain? why because beekeepers are not following the medication directions, they are either pulling the strips out of the hives too early or leaving them in overwinter... one last thing when you give advice to beginning beekeepers your reciting from a book is just that, if thats all they need then why do colleges like cornell have master beekeeping programs? all beginners need to do is read a book right?

    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 19, 2001).]

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clayton:

    hello clay, do you purchase foundation or beeswax from a supplier? well guess what you have so called contaminated wax, how many mites do you count when you do a either roll on your untreated hives? nick calderone at cornell would love to have you on his research team. the only way you are going to have uncontaminated wax is if you start with a supply of uncontaminated wax, thats not possible today, or if you live in new zealand, the contaminats you are raving about are in the fraction of a ppm,



    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 19, 2001).]

  3. #23
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    hello clay, do you purchase foundation or beeswax from a supplier?

    reply:

    No. I Make my own foundation with my own mill. My wax is self contained. The only thing that is in that wax is FGMO which is safe for consumption.

    Clay

  4. #24
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    Joelz wrote:
    hello barry, do you purchase foundation, or raw beeswax from beekeeping suppliers?

    reply:
    I do not buy foundation anymore. I made my own from my own chemical free wax.

    Joelz wrote:
    why are your bees becoming resistant to apstain?

    reply:
    Because you can never kill 100 percent of anything with chemicals and those that you don't kill will build up resistance over time. Sure, the misuse of these chemicals by beekeepers has help to speed up the process, but you just can't excape the inevitable. Your contacts at Cornell can explain this to you in much greater detail, giving references also.

    Joelz wrote:
    one last thing when you give advice to beginning beekeepers your reciting from a book is just that, if thats all they need then why do colleges like cornell have master beekeeping programs? all beginners need to do is read a book right?

    reply:
    All beginners SHOULD start by reading the books. I simply quoted some text from a book that I thought would add to the discussion. By no means was it intended to be conclusive. The purpose of this Bulliten Board is to share thought and experiences, ask questions, and learn from others.

    Regards,
    Barry

  5. #25
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    hello barry quite interesting, my contacts at cornell, dont seem to have the expertese in organic beekeeping as you do, maybe we could all attend a sminar in your beeyard?? i and thousands of beekeepers would like to know your and clays weapon agianst mites. mine is drone foundation, screened bottom boards and formic acid.. oh formic acid is a natural occuring chemical, so im organic too...

    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 20, 2001).]

  6. #26
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    This is an email to Joelz:

    Hi!

    My name is Dee and I too know people at Cornell University and some don't like loudmouths know it alls that throw their ignorance around to have it fall back onto a fine institution.

    Therefore for those here Dr Nicholas W. Calderone's email address is:

    nwc4@cornell.edu

    May I suggest you forward a copy of this long exchange to the boss. He might find it highly interesting. I myself found it rather laughable.

    And yes, one does not need to use chemicals in a colony of bees to keep them alive due to parasitic mite problems. This is what master beekeeping classes are for. To help those in need and one here certainly talking is in deep need.

    You therefore want to talk my man. You can now talk with me on a one to one basis, item by item and be prepared to reference what you say.

    Regards,

    Dee A. Lusby

  7. #27
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    dont seem to have the expertese in organic beekeeping as you do, maybe we could all attend a sminar in your beeyard??

    reply:

    better yet you should visit Lusby Apiaries in AZ. There you can see 700 colonies of 100% dope free colonies going into there seventh year on 4.9mm top clearance cell size.

    oh formic acid is a natural occuring chemical, so im organic too...

    Yes. But not at the level that you are using it. Formic burns the exoskeleton of your bees. Don't think so, handle it with bare hands for 50 colonies. This can't possible maintain the healthiest of bees.

    Clay



  8. #28
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    ok dee ill refrain from your style of mane calling, you are trying to market your solution to the mite problem in the u.s. and anyone who disagrees with you are ignorant loudmouths, i hope all beginning beekeeprs who read this will assume that also, you have proven beyond any doubt i have had that you are a master beekeeper and how can i purchase a bottle of your organic formula to protect my bees?? its really funny the chemicals used in mite supression are usda approved is yours??

    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 21, 2001).]

  9. #29
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clayton:
    &gt; oh formic acid is a natural occuring chemical, so im organic too...

    Yes. But not at the level that you are using it. Formic burns the exoskeleton of your bees. Don't think so, handle it with bare hands for 50 colonies. This can't possible maintain the healthiest of bees.

    Clay

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    clay, handle the liguid form of formic acid and yes you will be burnt, bees are not handling the liquid form only the vapors...obviously, you would not handle formic acid with your bare hands, what are you trying to prove here clay that your right and im wrong if so your better sharpen your skills a bit

    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 21, 2001).]

  10. #30
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    well dee must be ive missed something all the classes i have taken at cornell and not once has there a suggestion that your methods work?????? i have a number you can contact nick or one of his assistants at cornell if youd like,

    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 21, 2001).]

  11. #31
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rainesridgefarm:
    What bee problems? You just do not get it!! Build their immune system and all the problems go away. Kelp tea, pepperment oils, Organic soy flour. I am sure you will want the last word. So give it your best shot. But please work on your spelling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>their immune system? to handle mites come on from reading you question obviously you are a beginner, or you wouldnt ask such silly questions, and yes im trying to work on my spelling i do this as soon as im done writing replys to foolish question


  12. #32
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    ATTENTION!

    When everyone joined this Bulletin Board, you agreed to it's rules, of which there is basically one: Be civil.

    Discussions are starting to become uncivil. If you can't say it politely, don't say it. Share your opinions and agree to disagree. If cutting remarks enter in, the posts will now get deleted.

    Please continue.

    Administrator

  13. #33
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    Hi Joelz,

    Reference your reply of 21Dec01, 02:48,

    ok dee ill refrain from your style of mane calling, you are trying to market your solution to the mite problem in the u.s. and anyone who disagrees with you are ignorant loudmouths, i hope all beginning beekeeprs who read this will assume that also,

    Reply:

    First of all, I am not trying to market my solution in the USA. I am trying to market it worldwide. Herein is the difference.

    Anyone who disagrees with me is not an ignorant loudmouth, But it will be a conversaton with exact references keeping to subject matter and not comparing apples to oranges concepts. This means keeping to a natural system of beekeeping concerning foundations and bee breeding, and yes there are vast differences in behaviour between the two in the field.

    You further wrote:
    you have proven beyond any doubt i have had that you are a master beekeeper and how can i purchase a bottle of your organic formula to protect my bees??

    Reply:
    There is no organic formula for bees Joelz. You especially, if a masterbeekeeper should already know that. Field work is hard and labor intensive and short fix gimmicky just does not solve problems. It's like a bandage on an open wound, hoping it heals, when sometimes it doesn't.

    The biological formula you talk about requires proper diet of honey and pollen for bees. It requires regression to natural workerbrood cell sizing, to that in effect prior to sizing upwards in search of better bees with longer tongues for larger honey crops. It also requires a change in the way bee breeding is looked at, especially getting away from inbreeding that no animal on earth naturally does long and survives on an evolutionary trail forward.

    You further replied:
    its really funny the chemicals used in mite supression are usda approved is yours??
    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 21, 2001).]

    Reply:
    Actually, we went to the USDA Western region in the mid 1980s, and originally were under contract with the USDA/ARS for doing much of what we have done.In the beginning we worked with the Tucson Bee Lab, but then the project stopped because no one was assigned there that could do the work required and so we continued on our own. Yes it is funny chemicals are approved, but then you must have approval to apply dopes of various kinds. As for the biological, you must ask for it under law to be allowed to do it. Then under federal law it must be given to you upon request. Then they don't have to show you how to do it. Just make the information available. The ketch is no one is told they are to ask for the biological.
    Being published with Apiacta with the world beekeeping federation makes then, this material available to those asking for it. Since most don't it isn't given, nor forced.
    As most want chemicals, that is taught.

    But that doesn't make biological wrong.It is something that is hard to teach in class for each region is slightly different, though basically the same. Also, it involves going back to old style beekeeping with unlimited broodnests. This is a style that used to be taught by the USDA back in the 1970s. Today, other methods unfortunately are taught. Perhaps you should bring this up and maybe get the masterbeekeepers course updated or changed to accomodate the biological side and old style beekeeping with unlimited broodnests. Evidently from what you say the course is slighted towards the petro chemical solution side. This I think is wrong, for it teaches fast quick and a road to hell and slow death for beehives, that in the long run, must make the conversion back to natural parameters to survive.

    Regards,

    Dee A. Lusby


  14. #34
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    Hi Joelz

    On 21Dec01, 0257pm you wrote:

    well dee must be ive missed something all the classes i have taken at cornell and not once has there a suggestion that your methods work?????? i have a number you can contact nick or one of his assistants at cornell if youd like,
    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 21, 2001).]

    Reply:
    I have Nicsolas' phone number in my file already, However, perhaps you should talk with him about including some of the small cell size methodology in the masterbeekeeping course to bring it up to date.

    In the mean time, since you seem to be there, you are welcome to come here to learn about it first hand in the field. Then perhaps you could teach that part to others.

    Right now we are about 700 colonies, but are planning expansion this year to 900-1,000 colonies.

    Stuff you could learn here would be, basic biological bee breeding, regression of enlarged honeybees, foundation making, wax reclamation, colony work up on a natural system for unlimited broodnest management for crops of honey, pollen and propolis.

    Don't worry, we won't charge you for hands on learning, but you will have to house and feed yourself and supply transportation. Many come now to learn from around the USA and overseas. The information is free.

    Regards,

    Dee A. Lusby


  15. #35
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    Barry,

    I am quite sure that all of us can understand your last remarks. It is obvious that Joelz is under stress and indeed presents himself badly and by referencing Cornell University, puts the school in a very bad light.

    Beekeepers reading this bulletin board should not judge Cornell by his remarks and the administrators do need to be made aware of actions such as these and I am sure that they will.

    It is indeed hard for those losing bees due to various dopes used, many times worse then the parasitic mites themselves.

    As you all know, coumaphos is now no longer working in many areas. This many of us have known for 3 years or more now. But now finally it is official, by a government officials willing to stick their necks out.

    There is very little control now to follow and the scene will just have to play out.Besides coumaphos contamination of combs that render the wax useless for continued use in a beehive, you also have loss of queen rearing functions which means basically, when you lose the right to requeen with supercedure you lose the natural right to carry on your hives requeening of themselves and the game ends. You cannot buy new nucs and rreplace the bees for the problem remains. Contaminated combs with organophosphates and still no way to requeen.

    When will the game end now? Well, when the bee breeders using coumaphos top out and can no longer raise queens.

    In the mean time, this is a good example to show you all that many are scared. Also that hearing that doing nothing, but using natural sized combs to solve the problem is frightening to some, beyond belief.

    While we cannot accept actions such as displayed here, we can pity those in distress and try to help.

    Joelz needs help. Try to understand him, but be firm. Chemicals are no solution. Natural ways are and further, they have been that way since the beginning of time.

    Regards,

    Dee A. Lusby

  16. #36

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    AMEN.

    But the upside to all of this is we learned so much about the natural way of doing things. Dee are you going to be doing any group training this spring. I am sure many beekeepers would be interested in coming down and see your operation. Maybe just a two or three day course would be great. If you want to e-mail me that would be great. Also how far would you go to speak to a group of people. What cost would we have to pick up to get you to come to our Association meeting.

    Thanks
    Phillip

  17. #37
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    Wink

    My brother's loves his 4x4 Toyota truck and he always post and reads a toyota offroad forum just like we do. One day all of the people on the east coast got together for a weekend and went 4willing. Over 50 people came together and they all had a grate time. Anyway, Phillip's idea is not bad about Dee doing a group training this spring. May be we can all join?

    Just a thought,

    Andrey.

  18. #38
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    Wink

    dee please , i am not losing any bees dear and cornell university does not teach a biological mite control because at this time there is no complete biological control, thats fact. what bothers me is your dialog to new bekeepers that in a year or so will face the question as why there be are gone, read any of the last test results as published in the december issue of bee journal there is no complete control for mites, except yours, my hive consitaantly produce double the pennsyvania average of 60lbs.and i understand your reasoning for censoring my replies, finally someone is questioning you.........

    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 23, 2001).]

  19. #39
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    see i appriciate your opinion, but please try and refrain from degrading my intelligence, coumaphose was given a emergency use permit by the usda, i am totally unaware of any coumphose resistant mites in the u.s. also how is comb rendered useless in a hive where coumaphose is used?
    and as for requeening with supercedure cells, not the best route to requeen with.
    nattural ways since the beginning of time? really at the beginning of time we didnt have small hive beetle, varroa and treaceal mites, migartory pollenators criscrossing the counrty, or packaged bees moved across the country,
    and as for me being under stress, the only stress i have is your continued point of view to beginner beekeepers that organic beekeeping is the only way of keeping bees.
    organic beekeeping may work for a time by very experienced beekeepers, but for a beginner to try and master beekeeping and organics at the same time is a recepi for desaster. i stand behind my opinion as does cornell university beekeeper program, censor and edit this reply if you wish. as you have done in the past with anyone who disagrees with you

    [This message has been edited by Admin (edited December 23, 2001).]

  20. #40
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    Joel,

    The ONLY one that has been editing your posts is the Administrator of this Bulletin Board. The ONLY thing that has been edited/deleted from your posts has been the excessive quotes of previously posted messages. I have finally changed the settings on the BB so this option is no longer available. I regret having to do this, but excessiving quoting uses up disk space, makes it harder to read through a post, and creates a thread file that takes longer to open due to its size.

    Administrator

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