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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    Boy, with a header like that, I'm sure posts will be a plenty. Unfortunately it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. One of the items in the header is not even true. But hopefully it got some attention.

    On another post entitled "whats the story", I asked about numbers of losses. With perhaps dialog as to what each beekeeper is using and what they thought was responsible for the winter kill.
    I had hoped to see if the foggers were doing better than the small-cell, small-cell, vs strips, strips vs essential oils, and the like. I figured most have had the opprotunity to do an initial hive inspection by this time as most have had moderate temps recently. So few contributed, (less than 1%)that any information is useless. I'm interested in finding out how different equipment and management items have worked or not. We have good numbers of beekeepers in each area, I was hoping to hear statement like, "I fogged and used cords last year, and I lost .....", or "I installed russians last year and my losses were improved by....", or I used checkmite....and so on.

    I am not focused on proving or disproving anything. This year I'm installing russians, going with SBB, and putting 20 new hives on small-cell. I also use crisco, and used limited cords but no fogging last year. It seems everyone asks the same questions and has the same confusion. I'm only hoping to see other beekeeper results and learn from them. Although we are not all scientists, seems learning and using this site as a way of collecting group data, is not feasable.

    Anybody fog all last year? Anybody on small-cell? Anybody have all russians? Anybody have strips? Anybody????????

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,763

    Post

    I only lost the nucs that I would not normally have tried to over winter and didn't lose them until we had several weeks of really cold weather, including several days of -10 degree weather. Before that they were all doing fine.

    I fogged and regressed last year and finished off with some Oxalic acid. The results of that treatment was about 200 or mites per hive that dropped. I treated them again on Monday with Oxalic acid. Today, four days later I checked the mite drop from the Oxalic acid. One hive had 29 mites. Three had 2 mites. Two had 1 mite and the rest had none.

    I'm going to skip the fall treatment of Oxalic, unless the mite count is high. I do wonder if the Oxalic acid shortens their lives any and perhaps is a contributing factor in the small clusters this spring. But I also suspect that genetics may be part of that too. I figure using it in the spring is probably a better choice since those bees will quickly get replaced.

    But I may skip the spring treatment next year too on some of the fully regressed ones to see how that goes. I have not inspected nor treated my outyard at all this spring.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Lenexa, Kansas
    Posts
    445

    Post

    "We have good numbers of beekeepers in each area,"

    Yeah, but a LOT of us are newbies picking the brains of folks like you. Since results may differ from area to area, why don't you divide your hives and try out diffent methods to see what works in your area? And then let us ignoramuses know?

    And, why did you kick your cat? Heh, heh, heh.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Pomfret, MD, USA
    Posts
    242

    Post

    Bjornbee said:
    "One of the items in the header is not even true."

    Poor kitty.

    Kai

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >Anybody fog all last year? Anybody on small-cell? Anybody have all russians? Anybody have strips? Anybody????????

    no, and I promise I will give you a full report when I get back from the yards next week

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    You said you did not want to hear from us with just a few hives so I stayed quiet. I installed buckfast packages last spring and did a walk away split to make a new queeen for a very aggressive colony. So I have one buckfast and one mutt(mostly buckfast since I do not see any differences). I used open sbb all summer and checked mite counts in the fall which was less than one a day(5 for a week). Replaced the sbb with solid ones for winter. I placed a grease above the cluster in each hive a couple weeks ago. Both hives are doing good on standard foundation.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,420

    Post

    3 hives, 3 winners. I used Apistan in the fall for the prescribed period. I fed early in the year and had a good fall aster and golden rod season. Pretty mild winter. Started feeding about 3 weeks ago and seem to have great early brood production. Redbuds, wild plum, daffodils, etc. all starting to bloom. Several trees have leaved out, but we may get a mild freeze by Monday. Spring is here.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bridgewater VT. USA
    Posts
    238

    Cool

    two hives both appear strong, Ran both on sbb but w/ solid bottoms below and oil on slide out tray.had low mite counts all year and used apistan strips in fall w/ little increase in counts.I fed in 2:1 syrup in fall w/teatree oil.weather not warm enough to do a full inspection but looks like they have plenty of stores as they are not touching the syrup i put on 2 weeks ago. I did add bruid builder patties above all but not had to replace yet. lost of activity on 40+ f days no pollen yet.Both colonies are carnis.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,781

    Post

    Again, Rookie here, so data may be meaningless....

    3 hives going into winter.

    Hive 1 - strong two deep arrangement no SBB
    Hive 2 - weak single deep with SBB tray open
    Hive 3 - strong single deep with SBB tray closed

    Hives 1&3 were treated with strips exactly according to instructions.

    Fogged all hives at approximately 2-week intervals throughout the summer and fall but did not use the cords.


    Hive 1 survived, but enter spring very weak. (implemented beesource recommendations - Thanks bjornbee, Mike and others) Too early to tell how this hive will fair, but things look much better now.

    Hive 2 died in Mid-February (clear case of starvation). Total rookie mistake. Should have combined with hive 1, or placed on top of hives 1 or 3.

    Hive 3 entered spring very strong and looks very healthy.

    Hive beetles already present in both remaining hives. Mite drop is very small.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    dartmouth ma. usa
    Posts
    9

    Post

    40hives in fall 30hives now of those 25 good and strong & reversed and all fed with fondant or 1/1 sugar and pollen now they take what they want the losses 2 weak that i hoped might live over a double screen the rest i really think was a starvation problem we had a lousy spring and a wonderful goldenrod fall i took too much in some and the cold winter with g-rod stores did the rest the answer don't greedy and look out for g-rod storage

    ------------------

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    dartmouth ma. usa
    Posts
    9

    Post

    40hives in fall 30hives now of those 25 good and strong & reversed and all fed with fondant or 1/1 sugar and pollen now they take what they want the losses 2 weak that i hoped might live over a double screen the rest i really think was a starvation problem we had a lousy spring and a wonderful goldenrod fall i took too much in some and the cold winter with g-rod stores did the rest the answer don't greedy and look out for g-rod storage

    ------------------

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    I detailed my interventions last year....

    I've not been inside my hives yet......

    Maybe this weekend. Maybe not.

    hehe he


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Eureka Springs, AR
    Posts
    40

    Post

    Twenty-three hives going into winter. All survived. SBB's with closed trays. Koehnen queens. Grease patties amd paper towels soaked with canola oil, menthol crystals, and wintergreen. Double deeps. One check mite strip per hive for six weeks in fall.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Arnold, MD USA
    Posts
    48

    Post

    "one of the items is not even true" - I knew you wouln't kick a cat.

    I have 4 hives, in double deep brood boxes. All on screened bottom boards, and Russian hybrid queens. I treated last fall with checkmite, and fed pretty heavily due to poor spring/summer honey production. All colonies have survived and doing well.

    Interestingly, I also have a six frame observation hive that also survived. It had fairly high mite counts this fall, but I did not treat them. They made it through winter just fine, and actually show little sign of mites. The break in brood cycle probably helped them a lot. Needless to say, I will be keeping a promising eye on them.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    parker county, tx
    Posts
    7,923

    Post

    Ditto what Hillbilly said- few hives so no response from me. I use SBB's and HBH equivalent. Only four hives, no losses last year or this year. The beekeeper I got my original hive from has had problems with varroa mites, so I realize it's something I need to be aware of, but none in my hives that I have been able to see with drone cell scratching or using trays under the sbb's for counts.

  16. #16
    jfischer Guest

    Post

    In Virginia, 188 hives in fall.
    About 100 are NWCs, the rest Buckfast.
    All on Screened Bottoms.

    Treated about half with Apistan, removed
    on Thanksgiving weekend. (Only half because
    regular mite drop counts are taken, and
    there was no need to treat the rest.)

    Tossed Criso patties into 100% of hives
    in fall "just in case".

    Lost one hive.
    It was obvious starvation - the cluster
    did not move to available stores, and
    the colony dropped below minimim critical
    mass to sustain heat in the cold snaps.

    And yeah, after all these years, losing
    a colony is depressing.


  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sebastopol, CA, USA
    Posts
    29

    Post

    "Liberals suck"

    They brought us social security, public education, the 40 hour work week, child labor laws, minimum wage, medicare, and more. I'm sure we'd be better off without all these socialist programs!

    You're better off kicking your cat!








  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    393

    Post

    heck i kinda like the header the best

    i dont wanna say too much just yet. 6 more weeks til we are really outta the woods. maybe only 4 or 5 if things go good.

    here are some ramblings:

    (1) poor fall flow resulted in poor wintering around most of this state. not enough brood resulted in old bees, small clusters and also low stores. this is one of those once in 10-15 year events. dont get too down about it....it doesnt sound great across most of the country.

    (2) fogging---ive about given up saying anything on the subject. It seems to have two camps, "it didnt work at all and is junk" and "its the perfect treatment and i have no mites of any kind". after a couple of years, i dont fall in either camp.....ive seen it have certain impacts that are positive overall and other specific situations where it fails.

    (3) russian hybrids will give you low mites counts. you will most likely also find some other things you like or dont like about them.


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    jfischer,
    Your the reason I ask questions. I find it amazing that you lost one hive with the number you have.
    Is this "norma1" for losses? What, other than being a detailed beekeeper can you attribute your success?

    Did you go through a loss period, and build up your bees from survivors? And do you bring new bees (genetics) into your operation, and if so how often and when was the last? (from ordering)

    I applaude you on selected treatments, and wonder if this ratio of hives not needing treatment is the norm?

    Do you make your own queens, and do splits?

    Is there anything besides what you already mentioned, that you can add to your success?

    Thank you.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    Danbeeman, almost forgot you. Didn't really want to talk politics, but will say in response.....You are absolutely correct. And if any of those good democrates you speak of could rise from thier graves, I would say thank you. The programs might be run badly but the thought was right. Unfortunely times change and going that far back to attach contributions to this current bunch of democrates only shows how sorry they are today.

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