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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    848

    Post

    Any body ever use NW Carniolans from Heitikams honeybees If so how did you like them?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    I bought ten of them last spring. Good grief, it seems like just a couple of months ago, I degress...

    Anyway, I bought ten, four for nucs that I bought, four for my original hives from last year, and two for swarms I caught.

    Of the nucs, one kicked *** , with one deep and three medium brood, and one medium honey super. The second has one deep and building it's third medium brood. The third, has one deep and is working on it's second medium brood. And the fourth has finally filled it's deep and is now working on it's first medium brood.

    Keep in mind that all mediums are Permacomb, and this has been a hot dry summer typical for Kansas. We had only one tenth of an inch of rain in all July, and one and one quarter inch rain this month.

    I had trouble with the third and fourth nucs. They both superceded their queens the worst one had already swarmed before I recieved it.. Always look in the hives BEFORE you take them home...

    Of the original four hives that I had requeened, at least one had not accepted the new queen, perhaps two. This observation is made by the fact that one of the hives had not changed color, had not produced any surplus honey, and has swarmed at least once, (I caught it). The other hive has not changed color either but has produced some honey. Of the other two, one has supers stacked over six foot high and the other has one deep and one medium full of surplus.

    I did however catch one of my swarms (as stated above) with a NWC queen and it has now almost filled it's second medium brood.

    Of the two swarms I queened, one had superceded it's self and has built up ok but only one medium of surplus, and the other swarm I lost track of and am not sure which hive it is in

    So, I had trouble with them superceding themselves. Don't take this as a testament of their basic traits, it could be my abilities, or lack thereof, had something to do with the acceptance of the queens.

    What I have seen is some really good, and some really bad build up. Even the really poor has a good brood pattern, and good disposition.

    My plan is to requeen this fall and plan to requeen at least half the hives, if not all of them every fall from now on.

    I will use NWC this fall and make another determination next year.

    Bill

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    393

    Post

    the big positive on the carnolians from them is that they are extremely hygenic. some are very productive also.

    i personally wont purchase from them anymore because they are members of ABF and support the honey board so my money will go somewhere else.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,936

    Post

    A shipment of Heitkem queens was damaged at the San Francisco Airport two years ago. I got three of them from the cleanup beekeeper. They were mean as the dickens when they got going and thnakfully died out in spring for unexplained reasons.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    848

    Post

    where eles would you get them besides strachan and hetitkams and what do you mean by hygenic?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    Wineman,

    Can you let me know whats up with the ABF and honey board.

    I have never belonged to anything other than my county and state beekeeping associations. I have thought it best to keep a low profile. I don't even subscribe to any magazines, even though I will very shortly. I think perhaps I'm out of the "loop" in information both positive or negative when it comes to this ABF and honey board. Thank you.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Germantown, Ohio
    Posts
    43

    Post

    What's this ABF and honey board?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Post

    I use lots of Heitkam queens.They are as good as anybodys.Pat is a friend of mine but I sure dont agree with him on the honeyboard.Pat has a good breeding program,selecting for hygienic behavior only from those breeders that show good traits in other respects first.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Lightbulb

    ABF=American Beekeeping Federation
    AHPA=American Honey Producers Association
    (AHPA and ABF are the largest national beekeeping organizations)
    NHB=National Honey Board
    The NHB was created to promote honey,all honey including imported honey.A penny per pound is collected on all honey sold or imported.It is being challenged in court by the AHPA as are many other commodity promotion programs as being unconstitutional.There is a disagreement between the ABF and the AHPA as to the best way to restore profitability to what is a dying business(honey production).The ABF chose not to officially support the recent Anti-Dumping action against China and Argentina.The AHPA members and Sue Bee carried the ball and won and is the main reason for the high honey prices every one is getting.China has blatantly violated the tarrifs by smuggling their honey in through other countries ,but it was slowed down some.As for the honeyboard,it hasnt done anything to raise the price of honey.Any increase in demand was filled by the importers,while American honey piled up in warehouses and beekeepers filed for bankruptcy.The feeling is that since importers are the main benificiary of the honey board,American beekeepers shouldnt have to pay the bill.And in fact as soon as this vote is over(assuming the NHB goes down),the packer/importers are going to form their own promotion board.So thats it in a nutshell.Wineman?

    [This message has been edited by loggermike (edited August 13, 2003).]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lynnville, Ia, USA
    Posts
    165

    Post

    My most lasting impression of the ABF convention in Kansas City was the time and energy spent bashing the AHP. There is plenty of badmouthing coming from the AHP also. It's a shame that all this energy can't be put into a group to promote U.S. honey.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Post

    Some kind of promotion program will 'rise from the ashes'.The packers are putting something together and there is input from both beekeeper organizations.My personal opinion is American beekeepers would do better spending their money on measures that limit the flood of honey coming in from China and Argentina.They are using currency devaluations to kill us economically so until that changes we will have to fight for our survival using whatever tools we have.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    393

    Post

    I think loggermike and iowabeeman both summed it up. I have no doubt that there will be some kind of packer/importer board formed. Too bad both bee associations cant get on the same page but it seems that the disagreements go back a ways beyond just the honey board.

    Ive only met Pat Heitkam once and was quite impressed with his breeding program. I somewhat suspect that there is a fair amount of italian in his bees but since I am in favor of hybrid vigor that isnt a bad thing. Perhaps thats not the case but I have always seen a fair amount of difference in carnis from Strachan relative to Heitkam.

    If you are just wanting to try out carnolians, why not buy a couple from both places and see how they do for you. You will probably be happy with bees from both places.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    I've only use strachans queens. I've found there queens progenity to be quite consistent. With about 3 out of 50 leaning towards the italian side. I think strachan was the last infusion of carni blood I have had in quite some time. They were good queens but I have been in tune to breeding my own queens for some time now.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Post

    I always get Italians from Heitkams.I have bought Carns from Strachans in the past and found them to be pretty much true to Carny traits.There are so many hives of both types in the Sacramento Valley,that it is no surprise to get mixed matings.Just what I like.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    848

    Big Grin

    any other place to get NWC from like Bee happy. so what you guys are saying is that hetikams arn't pure carniolans?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Post

    No such thing as pure anything,anywhere.And just as well,purebred = inbred.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lynnville, Ia, USA
    Posts
    165

    Post

    I got some queens from Olivariz this year. He is around Orland,Ca. He admitted to me that he has no idea whose drones his queens are mating with. He is within a few miles of Powells, Koehnens, Heitkamps and god only knows how many others. There are tens of thousands of colonies there. Italian drones have to play a big part in the mating picture.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Post

    The only thing you can be sure of is that these are all top notch queen breeders and they will all saturate the area with the best drone colonies available.Italians are by far the most popular breed overall in the USA so unless the queen breeder is totally isolated(not likely)Italian influence will be in their somewhere.GO ITALIANS!!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rapidan, VA. U.S.A
    Posts
    62

    Post

    I like Bullseye had trouble with them superceding. I bought two packages in the spring, and both superceded, but I did call and tell them about it, and they sent me new queens at no charge. Pretty good customer service I'd say.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Post

    I think there was a lot of supercedure problems this year with queens from many producers because it was a cold rainy spring in the queen raising areas.I know I had more than the usual supercedures.It wasnt a surprise because I pay attention to the weather reports from the areas I buy queens from,and if it rains a lot during the mating time,I know there will be problems with getting the queens properly mated.I dont like it ,but figure on average over the long haul I will mostly get good queens.

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