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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bismarck ND
    Posts
    38

    Post

    Does anyone out there have experiance with Oxalic Acid and or the Commercial Oximte Strips?

    Kill Rate?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Post

    Lots of people here, including me, have used an evaporator and oxalic acid. A few people tried the strips but the bees just propolized them.

    The vapor is very effective at killing all the free mites in the hive. Not very effective at killing any of the mites in the capped cells. It's cheap. It's not difficult. Use the prescribed dosages in the fall after brood rearing stops and you'll get rid of virtually all the mites in one shot.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Harriman, Tn
    Posts
    175

    Post

    Has anyone one ever Killed a hive from useing to much oxalic acid? I know with formic acid there was some queens that were killed.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    16

    Post

    @Lively Bee's

    too much acid??? why do you want to use more than necessary?? OA gives 95-99% efficacy...do you want more ??? I never had queen lost with OA.

    for more information

    http://www.apis.admin.ch/en/krankheiten/oxal.php

    you can use AO by trickling, evoporating or spaying....ALWAYS with the good concentration or quantity and ALWAYS in brood-free colony (winter)....just follow the rules made by scientist (eg in liebefeld)

    regards

    renaud

    http://www.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/hom...d_RL_2004.html

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Post

    >Has anyone one ever Killed a hive from useing to much oxalic acid? I know with formic acid there was some queens that were killed.

    I've heard the formic acid statistics on queen loss. I've never lost a queen with Oxalic, but I had a very small (1 eight frame box) hive that was very hot this last fall and thought I'd see what happened if I gave them four times the normal amount. My hope WAS that it would kill the queen and I could requeen them. It ran most of the bees out the door and killed some of them. So you CAN get too much. But again, why would you want to? The dosage isn't very tricky. You can double it or half it without seeing much difference in the effects.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,619

    Post

    >>Has anyone one ever Killed a hive from useing to much oxalic acid?

    I think it is a valid question. Especially to beekeepers who are not familiar to the stuff. An over application of Formic Acid will result in bee and brood losses, and also losses are associated with high temperature fluctuations during treatment due to its unstable properties. Oxalic does pose much the same properties as Formic, as the two are very simular in composition in its vapour state. I would say yes, but the difference is in its application methods and timing.
    I have little to no knolege of these strips. And I am really interested. Where can I get info on this product? What is the effectiveness, timeing and cost of this product?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,619

    Post

    The CHC has about 75% of the funding needed for the Oxalic acid registration project here in Canada. I havent looked to closesly at Oxalic acid use in my hives yet but from what I am seeing from studdies, it lookes real promising. That and it is safer to use than formic and apperently more effective than formic. Also it can be applicated later in the season, when my work load is not so bussy and even after the hives are wrapped. The only concern I have is the treatment might be too late in the season to save hives from varroa damage, but I think if I use in combination with another mite control, for a few years, it might allow for a single Oxalic treatment in the fall. We will see.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Harriman, Tn
    Posts
    175

    Post

    Thank you, Im going to use OA for the first time and was just wonting a little extra info thank you to every one.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bismarck ND
    Posts
    38

    Post

    Has anyone tried OA mixed with Vetable Shortening?

    Knoefler

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    597

    Post

    TRICKLING WITH OXALIC ACID SYRUP

    70 % of Finnish hives are treated with trickling.
    I have had varroa 20 years. I have used trickling 2 years. I have not noticed any harm from trickling.

    Cure is given before winter when brood is away and bees are in winter ball. +5 - +10C (41-50F) is good temperature. Bees may fly back to hive at this temperature but even colder is good.

    Brood area contains mites. It it best to destroy them if it is small. If bees do not fly and you put frame out, birds will pick brood from frame. If you leave brood you may have hundreds of mites there.

    Get a vaccination syringe from drugstore so you see ecaxtly needed measure to spray.

    You may put paper on bottom boad before handling. You will se how much you get mites when you take it away.

    Recipe:

    Take 7,5 gr oxalic acetic powder and put it into 0,1 liter warm water.
    Take 100 gr sugar and dilute it in the solution.

    (Euro coin is just 7,5 g. You can weight your coin and you can use as weight. Own balance is easy to do. Our coin weights are in internet. There are cheap digital kitchen balances in stores which have 1 g accuracy. )

    This 160 ml volume is enough for 3-5 hives, depending of the amount of bees .

    Give droplets together 4 ml solution in one gap of frames, which is full of bees from edge to edge.

    Do not give for one box hive more than 40 ml, and this only for hive which is totally full of bees.

    Do not give for 2 box hive more than 50 ml.


    DON'T GIVE TWICE HANDLING. It is harmfull.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fruitland ,Idaho
    Posts
    425

    Post

    Yes we have killed hives with oxylic. DO NOT trickle it on hives with open brood (eggs and larva) espacially not 10 days apart. And yes I know that is not the approved method. Just putting the info on the table.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,349

    Post

    I remember reading here about 1 year ago some information regarding home made oxamite strps. Actually they were impregnating shop towels( I think from the description) with an oxalic formula of sorts(alcohol, oxalic acid ?) They were trying to fine tune the process. The post had been made by a beekeeper from Europe, maybe a Swiss or German but I cannot remember. Does anybody remember? It seemed promising.

    Jean-Marc

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,287

    Post

    What does OA sugar syrup breakdown into?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Wakefield, MA, USA
    Posts
    224

    Post

    Search OSINAL and you'll pull up the info on alcohol + citric acid + oxalic in towels.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Denmark, Europe
    Posts
    67

    Post

    I, like a lot of other danish beekeepers, use trickling with oxalic acid. Recipe and procedure is like Finman describes, and I haven't had any mishaps (yet).
    It is possible to kill the bees with OA, and, if swalloved, it is not any good for the beekeeper too...
    That's why I use trickling! In my opinion far the safest and the most easy method to use

    -----
    Thor

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,349

    Post

    JWG

    Thank you. I've got some bees that stay broody year long. I used trickle method on some, oxalic evaporation on others but still the odd hive has varroa. I used formic previous to it, but I do not really care for it. This Osinal seems cheap, easy to make and apply. If it works well than great.

    Jean-Marc

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Denmark, Europe
    Posts
    67

    Post

    Jean Marc
    >>Actually they were impregnating shop towels( I think from the description) with an oxalic formula of sorts(alcohol, oxalic acid ?)<<

    A: Are you sure it was oxalic acid? It seems to me that it could be Thymol...

    check this link: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/formic/thymol.htm

    B: Don't think oxalic acid is the right method, if the bees have brood all year round. As far as I know mites on capped brood is not affected by oxalic acid treatmens, as it does not penetrate the cell cappings.
    I think formic acid would bee a better choice - I use it myself every autum.

    Thor

    [size="1"][ February 03, 2006, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: thorbue ][/size]

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    PAPER TOWEL method called OsInAl (OxalSaure In Alcohol). OsInAl can be used in fall, even when colonies are breeding. You can leave the OsInAl tissue in the hive during the winter. OsInAl is NOT suitable to treat strongly infested colonies in summer. It is useful to treat splits with OsInAl. The bees must have contact with the tissue. OsInAl is not immediately effective like OA trickling. The effect lasts over several months.

    Formula for 40 tissues: 200g oxalic acid, 1 liter 70-90% alcohol, 50g citric acid. You can use thin tissue (cheap towels for cleaning) made of PE-fibers or other artificial material in size of 20x25cm (about 8x10”). Dissolve the oxalic and the citric acid in the alcohol. Put the batch of towels in a plastic container and spill the solution over the towels. The alcohol is used to resolve the oxalic acid. The alcohol evaporates within 2-3 days and the OA is evenly spread in the towels. Pay close attention, alcohol kills the bees! Do not use the towels soaking wet! Citric acid (hygroscopic) is needed to (keep) towels wet in the hive. OsInAl works much better, when the towel is wet. Kills 60-90% of the mites.
    [BumbleBee,http://www.beesource.com/cgibin/ubbc...316;p=2#000032 - Accessed 2/21/05].

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,349

    Post

    Thor:

    That is interesting. It is not a method I had heard about. So if I got it right the thymo is melted in a double boiler then 12 g are placed in a shop towel. Sounds easy enough if you can get cheap thymol crystals.

    Jean-Marc

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Denmark, Europe
    Posts
    67

    Post

    I have not tried this method with thymol, but it has been tested and found effedtive by our bee association.
    I would like to try it, but first I would have to chek out what safety precoursions one should take when preparing the thymol-strips. My guess is that the melted thymol will give off fumes, and that these might be unhealthy.

    Thor

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