Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    i have italian honey bee,what would like to know is in the future i am going be ordering garman black and russain,cas.and can. will these honey be stay with their on in the hive i put them in are will they fight and kill each other or will they cross breed with the other, i would like keep them seperated i guest i could buy them different time of the years. (example) like buy the garman this time next year and buy the russain the year after that this way they could settle in to there set hive can any one help me with this problem of my future beekeep exp. tony williams

    ------------------
    tony

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    >i have italian honey bee,what would like to know is in the future i am going be ordering garman black and russain,cas.and can. will these honey be stay with their on in the hive i put them

    Usually. Some drifting occurs where bees wander into the wrong hive and stay.

    >in are will they fight and kill each other

    Not because of being a different race, no. But sometimes bees rob and then they fight and kill each other. But that is not because of race.

    >or will they cross breed with the other

    If they raise queens the queens will mate with whatever drones catch her. This is most likely going to make some crossbreeding. She mates with several so the resulting workers will probably be of several different markings

    > i would like keep them seperated i guest i could buy them different time of the years.

    Getting them different times of years will make no difference. The queens you buy are already mated and as long as the original queen coninues you'll have as pure a stock as she and the drones she mated with are. After they supercede her or they swarm you'll have whatever mixture resulted in the new queen mating.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    so your say if i wanted to buy the bees now that i really shouldn,t worry about any of the problem that i broght up. tony williams

    ------------------
    tony

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    If you CAN buy bees now (from some local person, since package bees are only available in ths spring) and they are of different races it won't cause any more problems than if they were all of the same race as far as fighting, robbing, drifting etc.

    As far as crossbreeding, they will crossbreed when they raise a queen, but it won't matter what you do, unless you always buy queens and make sure they don't raise their own or you replace them as soon as you realize it. Since queens only mate during one short period of their life before they start to lay, they won't crossbreed unless they supercede the old queen, the old queen dies or the old queen swarms.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    so say i wanted to breed aweaker apis idica cerana to a real stong one would they produce more both honey and a new breed of apis

    ------------------
    tony

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    >so say i wanted to breed aweaker apis idica cerana to a real stong one would they produce more both honey and a new breed of apis

    As far as I know there are no Apis Idica Cerana here and I doubt you'd be allowed to import any.

    IMO you can't breed a weak breed into a strong breed. Once you've lost vigor, you can't really create it when the genes aren't already there for it.

    That's been my observation with chickens, horses and bees.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    As far as I know the only honey bees here and the only ones still allowed to be brought here from anywhere (and then under a lot of controls and restrictions and sometimes outright bans) are:

    Apis Mellifera Ligustica
    Apis Mellifera Caucasica
    Apis Mellifera Carnica
    Apis Mellifera Mellifera

    I'm not sure where they would classify the Russians, but I'd guess they are Caucasians. Buckfasts are a mixture of several of these.

    Perhaps there are some other varieties of Apis Mellifera here, but I don't believe any other species would be allowed.

    Apis Mellifera Scutelata are here, of course (Africanized Honey Bees), but most states require them to be destroyed when found.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    i didn't understand the breeding of african cross breeding there honeybee but form what i understand about that is that they got a bad wrap because of a war that was going and the gover was blaming the honey bees for some of the attack so what was the breed that are now known as the africanbees

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    >i didn't understand the breeding of african cross breeding there honeybee

    The Africans didn't do it. The USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) bred Apis mellifera adansonii with Apis Mellifera Ligustica and created Apis Mellifera Scutelata. This same experiment also went on in Brazil. The ones here were shipped all over the US for more than twenty years.
    http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/part17.htm http://www.beesource.com/pov/ahb/index.htm

    > but form what i understand about that is that they got a bad wrap because of a war that was going and the gover was blaming the honey bees for some of the attack so what was the breed that are now known as the africanbees

    I'm not sure I understand anything about a war being connected. A lot of the research by the USDA was during WWII. But I don't think the war was related.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    Where does one find information about the USDA breeding mellifera with adansoni to create scutellata?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/part17.htm

    These are some of the quarterly reports that deal with the subject from the USDA Bureau of Entomology and Plant Quarantine, Division of Bee Culture starting in 1942 through 1970.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything about the USDA developing scutellata in those URLs.

    According to my read of THATHB "The name of suctellata was given to bees of South Africa by Lepeletier (1836), evidentlly referrinng to the conspicuous yellow scutellum."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    The AHB was not being refered to as Scutella at the time, here anyway. But they were doing the same cross as is now being called that.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    i remeber reading that at the time of the crossbreeding of the a.bees that the people and the army was and that some of the bees escape and had attacked a commuinty of villiager and killed a lot of people. at lease that what there government claims but the store read that the african government try to gain money to suport the on going war the story is is in a book or one of these website pages i do so mush reading;that i don't remeber if i read it for the web or all the book about africabees but that was the understanding of the a.bee bad wrap i think that it was on a website

    ------------------
    tony

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    >i remeber reading that at the time of the crossbreeding of the a.bees that the people and the army was and that some of the bees escape and had attacked a commuinty of villiager and killed a lot of people. at lease that what there government claims but the store read that the african government try to gain money to suport the on going war the story is is in a book or one of these website pages i do so mush reading;that i don't remeber if i read it for the web or all the book about africabees but that was the understanding of the a.bee bad wrap i think that it was on a website

    There are a number of bee races in Africa, but the agressive ones usually referred to are Apis mellifera adansonii. These are what are commonly called African honey bees. These were brought to South American (Brazil) and North America (Louisianna) and crossed with Apis mellifera ligustica to create what is now called Apis mellifera scutelata which is commonly called AfrcanIZED honey bees. I suppose there were enough colonists in Africa who brought European bees there that there has been some crossbreeding in Africa as well, but since the AfricanIZED honey bees are no more agressive than the African honey bees, I don't know why they would get a bad reputation in Africa where the African bees are already common.

    To summarize:

    Apis mellifera scutelata = AHB = Africanized honey bees resulting from a cross of Apis mellifera adansonii and Apis mellifera ligustica. These are the ones that are "invading" from Brazil. They tend to be very defensive. They were bred purposefully here in the Western Hemisphere, NOT in Africa.

    Apis mellifera adansonii = African honey bees. These are the ones that LIVE in Africa. They also tend to be very defensive.

    Apis mellifera ligustica = (one of many) EHB = European honey bees (specifically Italian honey bees) These are the most common race of bees that are currently raised in the US. They were brought originally from Europe and still live there. They tend to be fairly docile.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    (M.Bush and H.H) ok question? what about this cross breed of apis mellifera capensis and then we got honey bees that dosen't have a queen.(www.wau.nl/pers/00/kaapbij.doc)and(www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/gibb.htm)and thank for the info. and website it was very info.tony williams

    ------------------
    tony

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,423

    Post

    >(M.Bush and H.H) ok question? what about this cross breed of apis mellifera capensis and then we got honey bees that dosen't have a queen.(www.wau.nl/pers/00/kaapbij.doc)and(www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/gibb.htm)and thank for the info. and website it was very info.

    The ability is called theloytoky.
    http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/thelytoky.html

    They are devastating the honey bees in South Africa.
    http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/projects/t...ontro2002a.pdf

    It is specifically illegal to import them to the US (by federal law) and most states also have specific laws against importing them or any crossbreed of them.

    If you want a bee that will raise a new queen when queenless, look at LUS queens. They've been here for a while.
    http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/bsmay1991.htm

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Post

    ok you made a point i didn't that we had this web page thank for directing me to this page tony williams

    ------------------
    tony

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    457

    Post

    I've read some articles by Kim Flottum at Bee Culture and he is of the opinion that the Russian bees the USDA is importing are actually Macedonian and not Carnilion. Any thoughts anyone?

    Pugs

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    demossville,ky. usa
    Posts
    59

    Lightbulb

    there are alot of honey out there i've only read about 25 different type and i am still learning and i believe there like some 1,200 plus i would have to go back to the web page that i reab that on by the way. pug why don't you throw up that web or the article where you read that at are the book that you read that for tony williams

    ------------------
    tony

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads