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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,654

    Post

    I apologize if anything I said was construed as disrespectful. It was not intended to be. I was trying to get across two things.

    That the difference in the impact on your yard between a hive 100 yards and one mile is probably negligible.

    How beekeepers view the "threat" of being stung.

    You will be dealing with both and I thought the information would be useful.

    Again, I apologize for whatever you found disrespectful, as it was not my intent.

  2. #82

    Post

    "I'm sorry Barry, unless you enforce the civility rule, I can't keep posting.

    Pat"---->Give me a break. This is civil. And besides, you could not stop now if you wanted to...

    Read chapter 27 in Hive and Honey Bee folks. More people die from overexertion than honeybee stings. So relax back and read a chapter in a good book.



  3. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    sacramento ca. usa
    Posts
    1

    Post

    While I sympathize with the lady that is allergic to bees, having one more hive in the neighborhood isn't going to substantially increase her risk as there are thousands of native bees, wasps already in her neighborhood. So, to protect her the city will have to eradicate all bees wasps in the area which is impossible leaving only one workable solution. This lady should go to her doctor and begin a program of treatment to desensitize her to bee venom. I work with a guy that had to take this treatment and now he even helps the local swarm catcher catch swarms bothers residents in my city.
    The bottom line is there is no practical way to protect her from bee venom. The only practical solution is a desensitization program through her doctor.



    ------------------
    Best wishes
    Britt,
    Freeport ca. Drain Or.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Rowley, MA
    Posts
    24

    Post

    nursebee,

    This is not "civil," anymore than what my neighbors intend to do, over strong neighborhood opposition is "neighborly".

    Here is a good definition of being a good neighbor:

    When you move into an area and set up residence, what responsibilities do you have as a part of that community? As homeowners or renters, there are some basic expectations. First, we should all show the pride we have in our homes by taking care of the property. But being a good neighbor isn’t just about keeping your property up, it also means being considerate of others. It means remembering to not play your music too loudly (both at home and on the road) and being mindful to not use loud tools too early in the morning or too late in the evening. After all, one of your neighbors could be caring for a sick child, or be sick in bed themselves. Remember, after 10 p.m. any excessive noise-- be it music, power tools, hammering or even loud partying-- is not only inconsiderate, it’s also an ordinance violation.


    Some people believe it is their right to do whatever they want with their personal property. However, in reality the freedoms that we enjoy, made possible by those who gave so much, have limitations. Our individual rights and freedoms only extend to the point where they begin to infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others. Since individual interpretation of where that point lies varies greatly, laws like the noise ordinance were put in place to help guide us. But, whether there’s an ordinance or not, the bottom line is that good neighbors are those who are thoughtful and considerate of those around them.

    I joined this board to clear my name and to become educated about beekeeping and hopefully to educate some of you about the health issues and concerns of people with bee allergies. Some of you have made helpful suggestions, for which I appreciate. I did not join the board to be insulted or ridiculed. The rest of you have helped me understand my neighbors' attitude, and I guess there is no way to change it. They may have their bees, but are not being considerate of my legitimate health concerns. When one of our neighbors complained because their neighbors dog was running into their yard, the neighbor fenced in his yard at great expense. That is being a good neighbor.

    I hope the kind gentleman who called me last night
    posts here today as he said he would. I can't do it anymore, I have a very different view of civility than some of you and I don't think any human being deserves to be treated the way some of you have treated me. Thanks and good luck.

    Pat

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,183

    Post

    Pat -

    Was there ever a private cordial meeting between you and your new neighbor where you both shared your concerns and tried to reason the problem out? How did this whole thing start out? Did your new neighbor tell you he was moving in bees himself? Who approached the other first?

    Regards,
    Barry

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Porter, Ok USA
    Posts
    491

    Post

    With the advent of DNA testing it may be that bees can be identified. save the stinger, or the bee if you can smash it, and compare it to one of your neighbor's bees. While there may be hundreds of queens with identical or near identical genes from AI brood hives, each open-mated queen should produce an individually recognizable grouping (depending on the number of matings) of sisters.

    Pat may have a pretty good case if she is stung now.

    Funny how the world changes.
    Ox

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Sapulpa,OK USA
    Posts
    174

    Sad

    I was going to stay out of this until the lawyer lady started on Mr. MB.....

    At first it did sound like that the beekeeper were being a little unreasonable even to me a fellow beekeeper, but as several have tried to explain the (1)foraging habits, (2) the food source isssued and (3) the really unknown allergic reaction... (no recent dignoisis or events) with bees 3/4 of mile away and hardly any bees in here yard during the past 8 years that in it self is amazing.
    Poor guy... this is the main reason that I live in the country... Neighborhoods like Mayberry just don't exist anymore.. Anyways lay off MB he is about the most informed and nicest guy on the forum.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,081

    Post

    Boo???

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Lenexa, Kansas
    Posts
    445

    Post

    Flower girl, several posts here show denial in action. Specifically, the theory that being stung is not all that bad.

    Well, for you, it IS that bad, so YOU! need to do something about it.

    You have apparently lost that fight about having bees next door. Fine. What now?

    Will you take the shots and educate your self on bees? I hope so. You apparently do not know that a huge chunk of the honey bee population was wiped out by the varroa mite. We can treat for that, now, so there will soon be a population explosion even if they do NOT move in next door. All of those frustrated beekeepers are going to get hives, now, and the bees WILL! come, no matter WHAT happens next door!

    Even if the beekeeper does NOT have his hives next door, you WILL! soon have bees!

    You can start by educating yourself. Apparently, you argued this case before you knew the facts.

    Look up pollination, and apply it to your garden. As I have ALREADY said, BEES DO NOT LIKE LILACS! So, there is NO! point in talking about ripping them oout.

    Most of your OTHER garden plants are ALSO likely to be pollinated by butterflies, not bees.

    KNOW! your enemy. Study your case. Argue facts, not fear. Re-read Kookaburras posts.

    You are afraid of bees. Fine. But, you need to learn about what bees do ANYWAYS, so that you can protect yourself from all of the bees in the world.

    You haven't done that, yet. You do not know what makes bees sting, to start with, and you REALLY need to know that! You ALSO need to know what will bring them to your garden, and if you still think that lilacs attract honey bees, you haven't done THAT, either!

    The world is FULL of bees, and now that the varroa mite can be controlled you will see more of them!

    This whole mess does not HAVE to be a win-lose situation, though it certainly CAN be if you set it up that way! In the courtroom they are ALL win-lose situations, but YOU ARE NOT IN A COURTROOM NOW, so choose a different path.

    [This message has been edited by Terri (edited April 28, 2004).]

  10. #90
    jfischer Guest

    Post


    > I joined this board to clear my name and to become educated
    > about beekeeping

    And you have received a great deal of valuable information
    and advice at no cost, which you continue to not only stubbornly
    ignore, but in many cases, attempt to argue.

    > and hopefully to educate some of you about the health issues
    > and concerns of people with bee allergies.

    Would you like the NAMES of the doctors at Johns Hopkins who
    treat beekeepers who have developed allergies to bee stings?
    Would your like the names of beekeepers who have gone through
    the process of treatment, and are keeping bees once again?

    We don't need to be "educated" on the issue, we are clearly
    well-informed. We are honestly trying to help you live in
    the real world, where, if you are truly "at risk", you face
    a risk that you apparently continue to refuse to even attempt
    to comprehend.

    > I have a very different view of civility than some of you

    Yes, you clearly do. You threaten lawsuits, attempt to incite
    a riot among the members of an otherwise peaceful community,
    you attempt to defraud and manipulate the local government with
    misinformation and false claims, and you deliberately create
    "negative press", all for your own personal convenience. You
    can't be bothered to even verify the status of your claimed
    "condition", let alone obtain a well-known cure, a simple matter
    of paying a co-payment and taking some time. Boston is one of
    the medical Meccas for the entire planet. You have no excuse.

    All the posturing and posing about "civility" is in sharp
    contrast to your actions, which are mean spirited, deliberate,
    and to date, ineffective attempts to bring your neighbors to
    their knees just because you feel that you are entitled to
    force the rest of the world to conform to your personal view
    of what is reasonable and what is not.

    Vinny and Lauren Lesinski have friends they have not yet met,
    and we will make sure that they can have their hives on their
    land no matter what tricks you might try. Similar efforts to
    restrict beekeeping in various places in the past mean that we
    not only have nice thick file folders of legal precedents and
    Amicus Curiae briefs, but we also have access to people and
    legal beagles who have played the game more than once, and won.

    Long story short, you MAY have a medical condition, and your refusal
    to seek a diagnosis, let alone seek treatment relieves everyone else
    of any obligation to worry about or feel responsible for your claimed
    plight.

    As one of many beekeepers who lead lifestyles of the rich and aimless,
    I assure you that I will be happy to return to my old haunts in Boston
    just to watch you go down in flames on this issue, if not man one of
    the metaphorical anti-aircraft emplacements myself.

    Give it up, counselor. You have your advice, you have your suggestions,
    and you can't be bothered to take even minimal "due care". As such, you
    are not "safe" anywhere but at the South Pole or on the dark side of the
    moon, and neither the Lesinskis, nor anyone else are under any obligation
    to attempt to satisfy your misinformed and misguided criteria for what is
    "safe" and what is not.


  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Bartonville, TX USA
    Posts
    456

    Post

    >I have two avenues left, the Board of Health, which the Selectmen recommended, followed by the superior court. I will be keeping a journal and taking photos in the meantime, while I sit in my house.

    Counselor,

    I am sorry to hear that you are so allergic that it prevents you from enjoying your yard. True allergic reactions to stings can be deadly, not just honeybee stings but wasps and wild bees as well. It would be good if you take precautions like carrying an epipen and seeking desensitizing treatment to protect yourself from this unfortunate reality of the world.

    You might consider looking at this problem differently. Wild bees are more aggressive and more likely to sting than commercially bred bees. This is because commercially bred bees are line selected for key traits: besides honey collection a major trait selectively bred is gentleness. Having your neighbor importing honey bees with low agressiveness traits to your neighborhood would help spread this genetic tendency to any other honeybees in your area. Excluding them just allows the wild traits to dominate.

    Just to help your husband here are some links of bee and wasp photos. This will help you identify all of the venomous insects that visit your property. You will find it educational (perhaps frightening).

    Unless your neighbor agrees mark all of his bees in some way, it will be difficult to establish your evidence against him and convince the court that these are not just any bee from within the 25 square mile radius they can forage in. I believe you mentioned that he had not yet installed bees and that you already have bees visiting your property. All of this will make it hard for you to establish they are in fact his bees.

    My experience is that the sting of the wasps are a lot worse than honey bees. They inject more venom and can sting you multiple times. I have not seen any information on the relationship to truly allergic individuals to individual bee species.

    I don't know who you should sue over the non-honey bees but and have only seen movies about sueing Santa Claus, none that have taken on Mother Nature so I don't know how you would fare. I believe they lost that 'Miracle on 34th street' case.

    By the way honey bees don't sting for the fun of it, they die when they sting. It may weaken your case if they plead self defense in court.
    http://troyb.com/photo/gallery/section4.htm
    http://photo.bees.net/gallery/otherbees/bees_wasps


    Thanks for reminding me why I moved out of the city. I better stop, before I drift into abusing the priviledges that Barry has so kindly extended to us. Barry Rocks!

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ellensburg, Washington, USA East Edges of the Cascades
    Posts
    61

    Post

    >>>>>There is another apiary down the street about 3/4 mile.

    Then having another hive 100 yards away won't make much difference in the amount of bees in your yard.

    >>>>>All of the abutters I spoke with have been stung, some multiple times. One was mowing his lawn.

    First, when people know of a hive in the area all stings now come from that hive, mowing the lawn, unless barefoot (which is a good way to lose toes), was most likly wasps or ground hornets which are aggressive all the time.

    >>>>>Anyone within a 1/4 mile who has a garden can't sit outside during the summer.

    Thats funny, last summer before I started beekeeping this spring there where 10 hives only 1/4 a mile from our house and another 2 just on a neighbors property whith were abandoned, increasing the likleyness of swarming, and I could sit out side just fine, the only thing that was bothersome was the wasps. I even did some gardening, I never got stung planting landscaping or tending it, there are some plants that attracted lots of bees ( such as russian sage) but generaly you can wait untill it gets alittle into the evening and do what you want to do with it. Bees tend to favor one plant at a time and leave others alone.

    >>>>>>One lady had to dig up her asters by her front door because they were covered with honey bees.

    Was that the only reason she cut them down? Bees that are foraging dont pose any threat. We have a Red bud tree that is planted in a hole in our deck that the bees really like, you can walk around it with out even getting hit by a bee. They generally fly up and away over your head.

    >>>>>>As I said, we haven't seen many honey bees, possibly because of the pesticides I use in my garden.

    Which pesticides are you using that don't kill wasps etc. and target honey bees.


    >>>>>It has more protein which is why honey bees killl more people in the US than any other biting insect combined, including snakes.

    For some reason I find that hard to beleave please state your sources

    Your neighbors did you a favor by telling you that they where putting a hive in, they could have put one in behind a fence and you would have never noticed. With the hive 100 feet away the bees have no reason to sting you to defend the hive.

    [This message has been edited by Kevin123 (edited April 28, 2004).]

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kiel WI, USA
    Posts
    2,369

    Post

    <<save the stinger, or the bee if you can smash it, and compare it to one of your neighbor's bees. >>

    In order for that to work, she would need to get bees from his hive directly for comparison, and even then they may not be the offspring of the queen currently in residence.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Rowley, MA
    Posts
    24

    Post

    For clarification to those of you who suggested that I undergo bee venom desensitization treatments for the next 3-5 years, I would not be a candidate for desensitization because the interaction with my blood pressure medication could itself cause a severe anaphlyactic reaction.

    So that is not a solution for me.

    Pat

  15. #95
    jfischer Guest

    Post

    Pat:

    Perhaps your blood pressure problem is
    caused by your adversarial way of dealing
    with every situation you approach.

    Regardless, ask an expert on the specific
    type of treatment suggested before you jump
    to yet another unfounded conclusion in what
    is rapidly becoming a long list of unfounded
    claims and conclusions.

    High blood pressure... wow, instant karma!

    Yet another example of how one is sure to
    reap exactly what one sows.

    Might I suggest a few weeks in Bar Harbor
    for some quiet reflection on life in general?
    Not so many touristicas this early in spring,
    and the wave action is impressive.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Rowley, MA
    Posts
    24

    Post

    You people are unbelievable. Anyone who knows me would tell you otherwise. Our neighbors are a different story. I am a mediator by profession. I look to resolve disputes without litigation. Those of you who think otherwise are simply wrong. But you feel free to make wild allegations about me just because I don't want bees next door for a valid medical reason.

    Has it occurred to any of you that not doing the right thing in this situation is what makes people seek regulation? If you could only be reasonable, there would be no need for towns to restrict beekeeping.
    This case is giving beekeepers a very bad reputation, probably undeserved,

    Pat

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Thumbs down

    This is just like trying to reason with a Democrat, it just can't be done.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Saint Charles Illinois
    Posts
    17

    Post

    Pat,

    I have been watching this post, and I understand your frustration. My sympathy ends there. Please look at things in your life that would enable you to better co-exist with the bees, hived or feral. Better flower selections are available that do not entice bees. These are simple choices you are left with. Help yourself, or complain to everyone around you that what happens to you is everyone's fault but your own.

    Hope it all works out for you.


    Amy

  19. #99

    Smile

    Funny Bill,
    I was just thinking the same thing about Republicans! (They're rapid in their beliefs). Who would'va EVER thought a Republican president could 'out spend' a Democrat!

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >Funny Bill,

    Thank you,

    >(They're rapid in their beliefs).

    I'm fairly fast but there are faster ones out there than me

    Actully, you haven't seen raBid until you tie into an Anti gun, Solialist, Liberal, Democrat. I'm sure that being from the great state of Texas would exclude you. (i hope...)...

    > Who would'va EVER thought a Republican president could 'out spend' a Democrat!

    It has got to have something to do with his last job running that "Whole Other Country". After all, "Everything is bigger in Texas!".

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