Thank you for your support and helpful comments.
I also thank others who have been able to discuss this matter in a constructive manner without impugning my integrity and motives.
BjornBee, I thought Barry did a good job of pointing out the lack of civility in your messages. Barrry, you promised if I joined the board that you would not allow civil comments. I realized that you have tried, but I feel as though I have more than enough of people like BjornBee right next door. I am going to
remove myself from this list, as it appears my presence is upsetting to some of your members, but if any of you wish to continue this discussion in private, please feel free to e-mail me directly, as some of you have already.
I just don't understand why some beekeepers are willing to put their bees above human life and neighborly relations.
Take care everyone and happy beekeeping.
A one acre lot is not a small lot. In my town, people have hives on lots that are 50 x 100 feet. As in several hives, next to people allergic to bees without problems. I'll bet there are lots of hives in the neighborhood that you dont see but exist - on top of apartment buildings or flat topped houses or stores, in the garages, next to the houses or garage etc and these are the ones put there by the owners. Then there are the hundreds if not thousands of feral bees, wasps, hornets etc that live without people managing the hives that are also in Flower Girl's neighborhood.
THe bottom line is that this woman is as likely to be stung with bees next door as with bees a mile away. I think I would have moved to the neighborhood first, been a good neighbor first, planted columnar arborvitae between my house and the neighbor's first (living fence) and *then* brought in bees whose hives are painted the same color as my house and outbuildings.
A local lawyer & beekeeper mentioned that no registered hives have been successfully litigated against in my state. They are part of the 'home economics' section of the local county fairs, not 'livestock'.
I think the new members of the community were too open with their beekeeping ideas before they 'fit in' in the community. The community was already looking at them sideways as they are new, and bees are an issue that can be problematic. I know - I have a neighbor like 'flower girl' but most of the town would stand by this neighbor against all comers unlike the Boston issue where the split is even. This neighbor gave me her left over house paint for my hives. Difference is the speed in which the bees arive and how much discussion/education comes beforehand.
With a moniker like 'flower girl' - well, isnt she asking for trouble? Maybe she should get rid of her live flowers & put in plastic ones. If you grow flowers, you will attract stining insects, even if the beehives are miles away.
Did you invite the Lewsinski's to join this discussion? I sure would like to hear their side of the story. As evidenced on this forum most beekeepers are very reasonable and respectful of other's rights. I think it's disingenuous for "flower girl" to be so concerned about being stung by a bee yet maintain an environment that attracts bees. Where is the common sense in that? I don't doubt that she is allergic to bee stings, but is this the whole truth behind her motivations?
Flowergirl- Please consider this article.
"According to this report beekeepers who were previously not hypersensitive to bee or wasp stings took anti-inflammatory drugs and became hypersensitive. In one of the cases the patient had to be hospitalized. After the patient discontinued taking the drugs, the immune system recovered and only the usual local reactions occurred from the bee and wasp stings. Beekeepers should think before they begin any kind of treatment with anti-inflammatory drugs that contain ibuprofen, naproxen, fenoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, ketoprofen, tolmetin or suprofent. "
I believe this to be true, since I have lived through a reaction while using Ibuprofen. I now using just plain old aspiran and I have only a local reaction .
And she hasn't been stung in eight years, she doesn't know the real extent of her allergy. Peoples reactions change over time, sometimes for the better or worse.
If she really wants to resolve this matter she should get a really good sting, and a really bad reaction and then she would have the ammunition to prove her case and win with no contest.
As it is she is just attracting attention on sympathy like she attracts bees to her yard, by her own actions.
> Did you invite the Lewsinski's to join this discussion?
I don't have an email address for the Lesinki's, but I did contact the Essex County Beekeepers Association that they belong to and asked a representative and/or the Lesinski's to participate. I heard back from the association and a phone call is planned for today.
As an update, I was told the town meeting last night voted down any restrictions on the Lesinski's bees, 2 to 1. The bees will first have to be in place to see if they really are a nuisance.
One thing that will not change even if the hives are not placed right next door but instead three miles away is honey bees and other stinging insects will be in your yard. Honey bees will visit your yard especially if there is anything in your yard which attracts them such as standing water, flowering plants that bees will forage on and cavities that a swarm may take up residence in. There are other attractants also. If I or any member of my family were to be allergic to bee stings and realizing that bees are nearly every where, I would get a doctor to desensitize the reaction to bee stings with therapy by giving shots of bee venom in small amounts that is increased every week until one bee sting can be tolerated. I would do this regardless whether there are bee hives next door or not. I would not feel safe anywhere even in my house because sometimes I get bees in the house. There really is no safe place anywhere on earth except where it is to cold for bees and stinging insects to survive. It is in your best interest to seek out a doctor who can give you the therapy you need to survive at least one bee sting if not more. I give my self bee stings because I feel as a beekeeper it is important to keep up my resistance to bee stings. My point is you need to protect yourself in this world of stinging insects and not let it control you and others around you. You may or may not be stung by bees that come from a hive 100 feet away from you but chances are you will get stung again in your remaining life time by a stinging insect that could come from anywhere. I feel the worry should be with yourself and you need to seek a doctors help for the life of you. I can go on and on expressing my concern about your welfare and how I think your neighbors can not help you more than you can help yourself. People must take responsibility for them selves. If you know you are allergic get a doctors help with bee venom.
. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/,
c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/
Chugiak, Alaska USA http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney
Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast;
I said I wasn't going to post again, but it's hard not to when people saying nasty things about me. I can't understand how you can possibly blame me for having a flower garden. In the 8 years it took me to plant it, I had no idea that someday an apiary would move in next door. I know this may be hard to believe, but I have very few honey bees in my garden. And believe me, I know what they look like. My two neighbors to the left will confirm that. I do have dragon flies, hummingbirds, butterflies, bumblebees and wasps and yellowjackets and many birds. When I do see a honey bee, I just work in another area. The problem is that with 80K bees in the next yard, statistically the number of bees, and thus my likelihood of being stung increases. I don't know why I don't get more honey bees, but I suspect it may be because I use pesticides that are toxic to bees to control leaf beetles on my lillies. Maybe they come once, but don't live to return again. By the way, I have never been stung in the 8 years I have lived in Rowley.
I would like to continue participating, particularly if the Lesinskis join, but could I please ask that people be kind and respectful and refrain from suggesting that I have some ulterior motive. I honestly can't even think of one. I think this board has the potential for assisting us through this impasse, so long as everyone remains grounded.
Evidently FlowerGirl has accepted the risk of bee stings since she admits to having seen honey bees in her garden in the past. This would also indicate that there are already bees in the neighborhood. So it just becomes a matter of the number of bees that she will tolerate before she has to 'stay indoors'. The fact that there may be as many as '80k bees next door' does not mean they will 'all show up in her garden'. The use of a tall fence even decreases the chances of the bees taking the short flights.
I wonder if she checks with the Lesinskis's and other neighbors on their allergies before planting more 'blooming flowers'.
I understand that gardens attract bees, but it is these sorts of comments that I find uncivil:
It is tis society that puts the blame on everyone else that really gets me, if she is so gosh darn afraid of bees why does she have a garden? when she eliminates the attractant from her yard she will not get any bees, its pretty simple, this is not the neighbors fault, this is her CHOICE to keep flowers. She should not blame the neighbor when she is actively inviting the bees in!
"As it it, she attracts sympathy like the bees to her garden."
I am neither looking for sympathy, nor do I feel I deserve blame. Why is one person's hobby more valuable than anothers? And why is it ok for someone to let their pets loose in someone else's yard? Don't I have any rights regarding the use of my property? My husband and I have landscaped our property ourselves over 8 years, at great expense, planting a row of lillacs along the driveway, and numerous perennial beds and bushes, which were designed to attract hummingbirds and butterflies. I don't see why I should be forced to remove them because my neighbors aren't willing to do the neighborly thing and put the hives down the street, out of harm's way.
One of my neighbors called this morning to say that she was so upset up what happened last night that she couldn't sleep. They are upsetting not just me, but the entire neighborhood. Those are the facts.
<<The problem is that with 80K bees in the next yard, statistically the number of bees, and thus my likelihood of being stung increases. I don't know why I don't get more honey bees,>>
Hi Pat -
I can say from experience that though 80K bees in your neighbor's yard would seem to allow you to say with confidence that statistically you would have more bees in your garden, it doesn't work that way. Yes, you will probably have more bees visiting your garden, but not proportionally. I have been around flower gardens (my own property) where bees were kept (8 to 10 hives) and did not have an unusual amount of bees there. Plants will only support so many visits by pollinators. A lot of flowers and plantings in gardens do not provide nectar and pollen for honeybees. At least not enough for a hoard of bees to visit. I found that a handful of bees will visit, but by far the bulk of the bees will be visiting large areas of nectar producing plants and trees. Bees also prefer to work one type of nectar source at a time. If clover is blooming, they will likely go for that verses piddle around with a few scattered plants in a flower garden. Just the way honeybees work.
Pat, since you will have all of those bees next door I will offer some advice.
First, the most likely attractant to your yard for the bees is water. They need a water supply and tend to be quite loyal when they have found a reliable one. If there is no water in your yard like bird baths etc. they will be less likely to show up regularly. It that isn't practical, if you can put a reliable source at a far corner you may be able to localize them there so they won't bother you as much.
Bees usually are busy working a honey flow somewhere. During times when there is no honey flow (which is usually a whole field of flowers somehere and will probably not be in your yard) they will take what they can get going for whatever flowers have the richest nectar that they can find. These are the times you see bees in your yard. You can pick flowers with less rich nectar and this is likely to discorage them. Bees often won't work many flowers that are not rich enough.
Bees that are foraging (or even hauling water) are not aggressive or defensive unless you go swatting at them. Stepping on them barefoot is the leading cause of getting stung by a forager. Followed by swatting them.
As mentioned many pain killers combined with bee stings cause reactions. I stick with Asprin.
Don't use pesticides that is not in accordance with their labeling instructions!
In multiple locations put out paper towels wetted with a sugar syrup solution this will attract the honeybees and as they walk across the Sevin Dust you've sprinkled around the paper towels and track it back into their hives, poof! problem solved within a couple of days. [This should help take things to the next level]
The real problem in this whole situation is the beekeeper who advertised the fact they were putting hives in their yard. If they had used a little common sense (which, in situations like this is usually ALWAYS missing - from both sides!) and kept their mouth shut and placed the hives "outa sight, outa mind" then most likely things would have been fine. Too often, beekeepers loose sight that many non-beekeepers view their hives the same as a den of rattlesnakes and no amount of "persuasion" is going to change their minds.
My favorite story is about the English beekeeper who had a problem very similar to this one. Finally he did move his hive away but left one prominent white hive boxes visible to the neighbor. Well the neighbor kept complaining and finally the city fathers sent the police out to have a "little talk" with the beekeeper. (The neighbor had kept complaining how the bees chased her). The beekeeper assured the policeman he would be completely safe and absolutely wouldn't get stung. So finally the policeman ventured over to the opened hive and peered down into a completely empty set of boxes. Needless-to-say, the neighbor's rants thereafter fell upon death ears. After some time, the beekeeper moved his hive back (this time out of sight) and no further problems were reported. [True story from my friend in Mexborough, South Yorkshire] <g>
"I don't see why I should be forced to remove them because my neighbors aren't willing to do the neighborly thing and put the hives down the street, out of harm's way. "
How far away is "down the street"?
Here's a question for all of you- Is it possible to contain the bees on certain days. What I am thinking is that I work M-F, so my only gardening days are on the weekend. Would it be possible to keep the hives covered on weekends?
As for the bees hoarding flowers, several of the neighbors which abut the hive at the other end of the street said that their flowers (ajuga, asters and lavender) are literally covered in bees. If that happens in my yard, I will send my husband out with the camera to document the impact. I have two avenues left, the Board of Health, which the Selectmen recommended, followed by the superior court. I will be keeping a journal and taking photos in the meantime, while I sit in my house.
By the way Barry, did you reach the Lesinskis? I'd love to see them join the board.
Down the street is about a mile, set back from the road in a big field of goldenrod and loostrife. I'm told it makes great honey.
As a person who has enjoyed having a hive in my yard for the last 30 years I would greatly miss seeing them whenever I want to by just walking out my door. In fact, I now have a hive in my living room. Behind glass with a tube going out the window, but I would really miss watching them at my leisure in my yard since it has been a source of great pleasure for me for 30 years.
It would by like keeping my dog at a neighbors house down the road. It wouldn't be the same thing.
I must apoligise for my immature contribution to this thread ,I must admit I was trying to be funny and did not consider your feelings.
I have ben stung by 30 yellow jackets while mowing grass which landed me in the ER with
anaphlyactic reaction,I now have the epipen because of that experiance and that was before I became a beekeeper.My wife and father in law aren't that crazy about my 7 hives
As I stated before I would not choose to live in such a place and would not consider keeping bees in such a place.I enjoy my space way to much to even think of living in such a place.If you like to keep "animals" Bees" or what ever this is a form of farming and is best done where there is room. But as far as keeping the bees home you would expect this to happpen about as much as you could expect to keep the neighbors dog/cat or what ever from craping on your lawn, yes there are ordinances and leash laws and people paid to enforce them but you still find steaming piles everywhere. I work at a public school and routinely see people bring their dogs to the school to walk their dogs on the athletic fields and no they do not scoop the poop. Students take PE class on these fields and play after school sports on these fields. The dog owners dont care if someone else steps in it but they don't want it on their lawn.Do you see a patern here everyone wants it their way but life is not burger ****.and yes there is too much government and too many people who think they should have a say in what you do and how you live. I keep Bees, a dog, chickens, Guns, Bow and arrow and many other things not to everyones liking but I live where I can and plan to keep it that way.
[This message has been edited by scsasdsa (edited April 27, 2004).]
Great Day Pat,
> Down the street is about a mile, set back from the road in a big field of goldenrod and loostrife. I'm told it makes great honey.
And from down there you will still get bees visiting your property if there are attractants on it. From your neighbors yard the bees will most likely be down in the field of goldenrod and loostrife. I would bet a buck that there are other beekeepers somewhere else within the circumference of a mile around your house. Really the more you find out about bees and their habits the more civil you find they are and less afraid a person becomes of them.
When I first started keeping bees I was deadly afraid of getting stung, now I make them sting me especially in the winter when I find one out in the snow getting ready to die of the cold. Get some bee venom therapy for resistance and learn to appreciate the insects that help our garden grow and the world eating well.
On another note I do understand what you might be going through and if it were me with the bees next door I would maybe move them to that field, but the neighbor does have a point of principal that he standing on, and all the pushing probably will not move him. Don't wait for a bee to sting you before getting the help I suggested, this I tell to anyone who says they are allergic to one sting, this is common sense. If you do not get the help you need it will be just as if you had a death wish, and I am sure you don,t have one of those with the way you are going about trying to prevent a bee from stinging you. If you get stung without some protection it will be your fault for not doing the therapy. I have had friends of mine get the therapy and one even went on to keep bees, it will help your confidence and you will be free of the thought you will die from one small bee sting.
. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/,
c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/,