View Poll Results: Do you want an Apiary Inspection Service?

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  • yes

    22 36.07%
  • no

    39 63.93%
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    JohnBeeMan, who is going to protect you from me? The State.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  2. #22
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    Right on, BjornBee.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  3. #23
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    May 2005
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    chilliwack, bc
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    we used to have a be club here that was affiliated with the british columbia honey producers association. It was running for about 30 years until it disolved in 91', I was there for the last 2 years of it. Then a freind of mine and i tried starting a bee club that we would probably registered with the BCHPA and we had a few meetings but it was short lived as well. the closest bee club now is held in langly, about 45 kilometers away and a lot of the beeks that go to that club i know and respect and I have recently decided to take out a membership to the bchpa through that division.

    it hasn't happened latly but some of the beeks that did place hives next to mine were from alberta, my yard of 40 competing with his yard of 300 and that would not even be a problem but that half his hives were infected with afb was. Beeks are suppose to have an inspection of there hives before moving from one district to another let alone out of province. His hives were inspected upon my request and half his hives,all that had afb, were burned, close to 150 hives made for a spectacular fire indeed, they did manage to save the supers and sterilize them with stack and fire method.

    at the time that mites were starting to appear in the fraser valley we had one yard (our pride and joy yard) that was isolated and mite free until one day we had gone to our yard and siting on the other side of the fence litraly a stone throw away was 80 hives. we had gone to the supervisor of the ministry of apiculture to let them know what was happening. My dad was tyhe one doing most of the talking and he has a rather nasty temper and is quit short in these situations, so when the supervisor asked "well, what do you want me to do about it" I saw that caracteristic vein on my dads temple start to throb, the tendons his neck tensed, his face turned red and with blood shot eyes he told him what to do "I WANT YOU TO GET ON THE PHONE AND TELL HIM TO MOVE HIS BEES TONIGHT BECUASE IF HE DOESN'T HE'LL BE MOVING THEM WITH A RAKE AND SHOVEL THE NEXT DAY". We new it would only be a matter of time before that yard would of had the mites but they had them from that day on.

    I could go on and on about this but the subject was would we like to have an apiary inspection service, my answer is most defenitly, i'd even pay annual fees to have that service back.
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Volga, SD
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    >>Help me Uncle Sam! Protect me Uncle Sam! Control me Uncle Sam!

    I always hear about "government by the people, of the people, and for the people." If that's true, aren't we helping ourselves, protecting ourselves, and controlling ourselves? If it's not true, shouldn't we be trying to change the system?

    Terrible circumstances in your stories, Chillard Willard. I'm sorry to hear about such things. Your last statement, in particular, is well said in my opinion. Here in SD, I do have to pay annual fees to register my hives, and I do appreciate the benefits from such a system. Like you said, some of these problems come to each of us in time, but we might be able to slow that spread through regulations. For example, we expect SHB this next summer here in SD. I know it's just a matter of time before they show up, but I would definitely be happy to have another 10 years before they do. I'd even be happy with just one more year before they arrive.

  5. #25
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    For people to believe that it is even possible to be free from government is silly.

    Even in the basic unit of society, the family, government, of a sort, exists.

    I don't know about your household, but when I was growing up I lived in a dictatorship in Maryland, just outside of washington, D.C. I'll bet most of you did too.

    So, let's grow up. Alright? Government of some sort will always exist. Be thankful that we live in this country.

    And if you don't care for the way that certain government agencys are working, get involved and change them, through your influence. You have more of that than you might think.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  6. #26
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    Dec 2005
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    <sqkcrk>
    Government of some sort will always exist. Be thankful that we live in this country.

    True enough.

    <sqkcrk>
    And if you don't care for the way that certain government agencys are working, get involved and change them, through your influence. You have more of that than you might think.

    And be vocal. Let people know that you think they may be headed in a bad direction.

    <Kieck>
    slow that spread through regulations.

    For some people, this is the only possible solution that they can muster. Heck, Marx felt that a human's effort should be regulated because some people wanted to do things that he didn't think necessary.
    JohnF INTP

  7. #27
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    >>For some people, this is the only possible solution that they can muster.

    All right. I'll bite. You imply that you know of other ways to slow down problems like spread of AFB and spread of AHB and spread of SHB and spread of Varroa, rather than using regulations. Let's hear them!

  8. #28
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    Dec 2005
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    <Kieck>
    You imply that you know ...

    Gosh no. I was making a general statement that some people always lean on regulation. I don't know enough about those acronyms to suggest that their spread is an issue or that I have a clue how to stop them.

    Just a general distaste for backdoor law.
    JohnF INTP

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >All right. I'll bite. You imply that you know of other ways to slow down problems like spread of AFB and spread of AHB and spread of SHB and spread of Varroa, rather than using regulations. Let's hear them!

    So far regulation hasn't made any difference. Can you suggest how it could?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #30
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    May 2005
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    chilliwack, bc
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    and election day is coming soon here in canada too [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

  11. #31
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    >>I don't know enough about those acronyms to suggest that their spread is an issue or that I have a clue how to stop them.

    Well, let's see.

    AFB is American foulbrood. That's the disease that initially inspired most of the regulations and inspection programs in states. Do the regulations and inspections help slow or limit the spread of foulbrood? I don't know really, but I can't imagine that they hurt.

    AHB is Africanized honey bees. Obviously, these are spreading, both through natural migration associated with swarm and almost certainly through interbreeding with queens that are being shipped to beekeepers or with migratory operations.

    SHB is small hive beetle. So far, this pest hasn't shown up in SD, but most of the commercial operations believe that it will come back with the migratory colonies next summer. This pest is spreading pretty rapidly right now.

    And Varroa, of course, is Varroa mites. Personally, I doubt that Varroa is increasing its range much in the United States right now. I don't know that there's much of the U.S. left for it to increase its range here. But they certainly spread from hive to hive. If any hives out there are totally free of Varroa, they're unlikely to stay that way long.

    So that's the long version of the acronyms I listed earlier. Most if not all of them are spreading. We might not be able to stop them, but I hope we can slow 'em down a little, at least.

    >>So far regulation hasn't made any difference. Can you suggest how it could?

    A fair question. I don't know that I can come up with a real situation, but I can suggest how regulations can slow or limit spread of diseases and pests. Here in SD (and, to the best of my knowledge, even more so in ND), we have regulations on minimum distances between apiaries. Three miles is the minimum distance between two apiaries right now. So, how could this slow the spread of disease? If the number of contacts among bees from different apiaries is reduced, the chances that a disease or pest could transfer are also reduced. It's the same principle that humans use when we stay home from work with contagious diseases.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Let's face it, there are some basic philosophical differences here.

    I see that when I see people write about what they do for a sting. All the medications they take etc. What I usually do for a sting is nothing. Sometimes I try to scrape out the stinger, but that's about it, unless it really bothers me, then I might crush a little plantain and put on it and go on about my business. Some of you take all sorts of medicine for stings and have all sorts of medicine handy for stings. Obviously you have a different view of things.

    I've never had a flu shot. Last time I had the flu bad enough that I even noticed, was 1975 or 1976. My philosophy is that my body will fight and my immune system will get stronger. I never try to avoid people who are sick. I seldom get a cold either.

    A lot of you, when you get a fever, instantly take something to reduce it. I go in a 235F sweat lodge to help my body HAVE a fever. My fevers always break before I get out.

    My philosophy is you should work WITH things not against them. My philosophy is that coddling yourself is counterproductive. Coddling your bees is, in my opinion, just as counterproductive.

    Laws that try to prevent disease by preventing exposure seem counterproductive to me.

    I've seen the "eradication" programs for everything from insects (usijng DDT) to thistles (using Roundup) to prairie dogs (using "rat" poison). I've never seen one work. Nature is a juggernaut. You best get out of her way. If you can redirect things in a small way, be happy. But trying to stop pests and diseases that are already in the wild is not only hopeless but usually results in a backlash. Try to kill the prairie dogs and you end up killing the predators (Black footed ferrets, burrowing owls, rattle snakes, eagles, hawks). And then you know what you get? MORE prairie dogs.

    I've observed people trying to solve problems by passing laws my whole life. I've never seen any real difference in the original problem after the laws were passed other than the problem gets bigger, because anything you throw money at does, and it costs me more money and more trouble to comply with and pay for the new laws. The problem does not go away. Laws don't solve problems. People solve problems.

    If a lack of an Apiary program will cause a disaster then there are many states that should be in the midst of one right now. If lack of a car safety inspection is a disaster then many states should have astronomical accident rates right now. But none of these doomsday scenarios have happened when the regulations were dropped.

    I know this is contrary to the philosophy that many of you have. I apologize that I can't see it your way, but I've observed too much to the contrary for too many years.

    Respectfully,
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  13. #33
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    Dec 2005
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    <Kieck>
    Well, let's see.

    LOL sorry. I knew what the acronyms were. I didn't mean to imply that I needed a primer.

    <Kieck>
    but I can suggest how regulations can slow or limit spread of diseases and pests.

    Ok, I think this is what he asked for.


    <Kieck>
    minimum distance

    I do see how keeping a distance between apiarys might slow the spread of a disease, but how are regulations doing it? Any chance I will be able to get you to see that your proposed solution can be done without a regulation? Any chance I could get regulation out of your vocabulary at all?

    Anyway, this minimum distance thing seems off hand that it might be a good idea. So, why don't you buy the rights from the landowners for some distance around your apiary and keep yourself safe?
    JohnF INTP

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
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    Oh boy, Bees AND Politics!

    Here's a couple of appropriate quotes, and I voted against regulation.

    Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

    The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.~H. L. Mencken


    The problem with regulation is that there is no evidence that the regulation will do what it is supposed to and plenty of evidence that it usually makes matters worse.

    Then there are other victimless crimes that automatically appear. What if the inspector is checking out your beehives and discovers a poker game with money on the table? Or a still? What if someone sicced an inspector on you out of spite? If there was no inspector, then there would be no crime of lying to an inspector, or inadvertently breaking the law.

    Voluntary measures are the best option.

    Don't you think it is better to convince people to change their ways through reason rather than by regulation?

    Walid
    The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them.<br />..................Albert Einstein

  15. #35
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    Oct 2002
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    &gt;I know this is contrary to the philosophy that many of you have. I apologize that I can't see it your way, but I've observed too much to the contrary for too many years.

    You don't have to appologize, your absolutely right. And BTW, well said!
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  16. #36
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    Dec 2005
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    ikkybeer, what would you suggest be done when reason fails.

    Have you ever tryed to reason someone into doing what they should do but aren't?

    Would this be evidence of effectiveness of inspection? (I'll bet that you'll come up with a reason other than Inspection.)

    2004 AFB rates of colonies inspected in NY, showed a 4.5% rate of occurance.

    @005 AFB rates of colonies inspected in NY, showed a rate less than 2%.

    Slice it any way you want.

    I'd rather that people would do what they are supposed to. What do you do about those who don't?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  17. #37
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    Feb 2004
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    &gt;&gt;&gt;I'd rather that people would do what they are supposed to.

    This is the problem, your option of what they should be doing may not match what they think they should be doing. And, you want the power to dictate your option.

    An inspection process when requested is a lot different from an inspection process by mandate.
    Bee all you can Bee!
    http://www.hamiltonapiary.net

  18. #38
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    Jan 2006
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    North Carolina
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    Hi Mark,

    &gt;&gt;&gt;what would you suggest be done when reason fails.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    If for example it comes to failing to reason with someone that they should keep a healthy hive, then their hive will die. You can do nothing else without violating their god-given rights.


    &gt;&gt;Would this be evidence of effectiveness of inspection? (I'll bet that you'll come up with a reason other than Inspection.)

    2004 AFB rates of colonies inspected in NY, showed a 4.5% rate of occurance.

    @005 AFB rates of colonies inspected in NY, showed a rate less than 2%.

    Slice it any way you want.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    Let me see if I understand...NY inspectors inspected hives in 2004 and 2005 and discovered that the percentage of hives with AFB dropped to less than half. What are you saying, that the inspection system educated the beekeepers to control AFB? That is quite possible. This result could be accomplished more effectively with a private system. Private consultants could visit x number of beekeepers and notate the percentage of AFB hives. After educating the clients, they come back the next year and check those same hives and the percentage drops. You could say that the private inspection process and it's reccomendations accomplished something. What does that have to do with using force to accomplish your means.


    &gt;&gt;&gt;I'd rather that people would do what they are supposed to. What do you do about those who don't?&lt;&lt;

    If you don't own them or their property, I suppose you could leave them alone.

    Walid
    The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them.<br />..................Albert Einstein

  19. #39
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    Not my dictation of my option. It's the states option.

    ikkybear, their hive dies nextdoor to you and then what?

    I think we are at an impass, because what you seem to suggest is what the state is doing. I would maintain that the reson that the disease rate was half of what it was the previous year is directly linked to the fact that the hives that were diseased in 2004 were not around in 2005. The state took measures to see that the beekeepers did what they themselves were not able to do without direction.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  20. #40
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    &gt;If you don't own them or their property, I suppose you could leave them alone.

    [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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