Just curious regarding prices. I have found a couple of guys interested in reducing the amount of colonies they have. What would be a fair or reasonable market value of a hive of Italians requeened last year. The hives consist of bottom board, telescoping top, two deeps of brood, and one medium of honey. All frames are wood with wax foundation. Let's say they have been medicated and treated properly for mites. Thought I would toss this out and see. I would like to increase my apiary size, but not sure on prices. This would be aroung the TN, AR, MS area.
I think a fair price would be $80 but of courrse that is what I paid for mine that coniisted of everything you entioned except the honey.
In MY opinion... when you get these estabalished hives.... requeen them for your own records. just to make sure. They might tell you one thing but maybe because they have so many hives, they got it mixed up. Just a word of caution.
$80??? If you can find them for $80 I'd drive a long way to buy them....!!! You can sell a 4-frame nuc around here for $55. Don't know what an established hive would run but I gotta think $80 is way too cheap!
There are a number of things that need to be considered when buying an established colony.
The hives strength and health play a major role in the price. The other factor that plays a major role in the price is the time of year.
All the rest of the factors are plainly hive parts and their condition as used equipment.
A healthy strong colony is worth significantly more money in the spring before the honey flow, then in the fall after it has made it's money for the year.
This colony is only worth the used parts if it dies and is worth a good ptential honey crop if it makes it through winter.
But, you are taking that chance, not the guy selling the colony. You have to prepare it for winter, etc.
I would say if the colony is healthy and the woodware is in good condition that the hive is worth $100, give or take a little. The price really comes down to how bad he wants to sell and how bad you want another colony.
If he does not want to part with it for that, then tell him in the spring you'll pay more for a strong established overwintered colony. If he is still looking to reduce his colony numbers.
[This message has been edited by MountainCamp (edited September 07, 2004).]
It all depends on how motivated he is to sell and the condition of the hive.
The bees alone would be worth $80.00
In March of last year I paid $85 each for two deep brood boxes of established colonies. The sale included telescopic cover (no inner cover, though!) and solid bottom board. Good bees at what I thought was a good price as far as I'm concerned.
If you are a buyer looking to buy, and contact a person who sells as a business, than the range would be on the 100 dollar plus range.
If you are someone who happens to stumble upon a beekeeper looking to downsize or get out of it, than somewhere lower than 100 is about right.
It really plays into whether the buyer or seller is the more motivated party involved.
I have bought this year, a low of $50 to a high of $80. This was for two deeps with normal set-up. I really liked the $50 dollar hives as they were also very well maintained. But would never sell a hive for anything close to that.
As Bjorn says, it depends on the sellers motivation. If they are raising bees to sell, they will HAVE to get more in order to make a profit. If it's someone trying to dispose of hives because they want to get rid of them, it will probably be a lot less.
Look at it this way. An established hive will make a crop the first year you have it. If the equipment is like new and the bees are healthy (be sure to look inside to verify this) what would it take for you to buy the equipment, assemble it, buy the package bees (including shipping) buy them again, because the USPS killed them all and you're too far away to get insurance, install them and still probably not get a crop until the following year.
Mann Lake's "Growing Apiary Kit" which is an inner cover, telescopic cover, bottom board, stand, two deeps with frames , two mediums with frames assmebled is $169.95 and that's without the bees. Most package bees by the time you pay the shipping will be $60 or more so that's about $230 right there and you are a year behind getting built up enough for a crop.
On the other hand, if you don't check the hive and it turns out to have AFB and you end up burining it, you're out the whole amount. Be sure you inspect them thoroughly.
after building a hive kit ,painting frame wax , bees i had 150.00 dollars i one hive. i started hives with nucs paid $ 35.00 each.if i was a guessing man 100.00 to 150 a hive in fair shape.
Gosh yore bees ar a good price.We pay $145.00 for 5 frame nooks up here.Afull drawn out super is $35.00 each.A full 2 super this spring was selling for $350.00.I should come down there and make money.
WHAAAT???? Hmmmm.... want some cheaper bees this next spring???? For 35 bucks a frame I will drive a semi truck to Canada.... hehehe. How do I get them across the border though??? Is the import ban still in effect for bees from US???
Before you go running the border, you might want to make sure you are talking the same language, currency-wise.
Here in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia (about 60 miles WNW of Washington DC) we had an interesting price-setting for bee hives where the Law of the Land superceded the Law of Supply & Demand.
One of our bigger beekeepers went through a hostile divorce. His wife had never participated in his beekeeping activities in any way, shape, or form from the arrival of Hive #1 to the time he was running 120 colonies. Yet when it came time to divvy up the "community property" she wanted 50% of the value of the bees. The divorce judge agreed, but he didn't have any idea of what the $ value of one living hive would be, much less 120! Some how or other he got some "expert" advise (not from ANY local beekeeper), and the Official Value of each colony in the State of West Virginia for that year was set at ----- $350 !!
So it has been VERY interesting to see the prices quoted on this discussion.
BTW, the poor beekeeper in the case offered to just give her 60 of "his" 120 hives, but she did not EVEN want that. He told me that he had to take out a loan to give her the cash value of half of every colony he owned at final settlement time. Fortunately, the next year he did have a good honey crop. If you ever buy honey at a WV state welcome station or rest stop down on I-64, chances are it's from the $350-dollar hive guy.
There are many ways to value something. You have fair market value, book value, replacement value, insurance value, auction value, income producing value, initial purchase value, and a few I'm missing.
Insurance and courts usually do not use the same market "fair value" we are speaking of. They take into account written book value as it is printed guidance and is what many pay as thats whats advertised. And if you had to run out today and buy today, not wait for market opportunities, what would it cost? They will also take into account income produced cuurently, and sometimes even the future income benefit/profit of the item mentioned.
To see it in the courts eyes, $350 based on book guidance along with income produced per hive, it probably sounds right to them. If you were to split or valuate a income producing venture or company, than earnings/income come into play. When you buy a venture or company, accounts recievable and yearly income/profit always come into play. I assume it did in this case.
Sounds to me he did not spend enough on a lawyer. Anyways to put it into perspective, we are talking fair market value, with market conditions based on buyer/seller motivations, and time not being a factor.
As for the comments "his hives", "his wife had never participated....", "community property", and the overall tone of the comments, I hope you never go through a divorce. Whether she participated or not, it was community or jointly owned money that paid for the hives. The price may not of been correct, but the decision the courts made were.
Goood GRIEF $350.00,a hive.I've got around 100 hives for sell at that price.Glad my wife don't know how many for sure I've got.hehe.
Even a half wit lawyer would have gotten him out of that one. Yes, she owned 60 hives, but he was in no way obligated to buy them from her. Something similar happened around here, but it was a dairy/grain farm that got divvied up, she was a lot more willing to accept a lower value on all the equipment when he showed up at her apartment in town wondering where he should park her combine and manure spreader.
"The price may not of been correct, but the decision the courts made were."
Uhhhh... I would have to disagree... extremely. Won't get into divorce discussions here, but my take is this: It depends on WHO's fault this split was.. as is the way its done in MS. And I personally hate to hear about a guy working hard many years to have something... his wife sat around for all those years doing nothing but social running around... and when she gets bored with being shackled with some old guy who is never around, she divorces him and he must buy 1/2 of what he worked for all over again. In this case at extremely overpriced rates.... Been there... done all that... but I can tell you that do to calm acting and thinking... I won in my case. If she wants to get 1/2, then she should wait for the investment to mature.. just like a retirment pension. If you cash out early you get NOTHING in my opinion.
I apologize for letting my own negative feelings about divorce show. I have been blessed to be married to the same woman for 30 years, but I have both a brother and a sister who have been through multiple marriages and divorces. I have a 2nd brother who, like me, is on his first marriage, so we are probably a typical American family for our generation. I read all the time that the statistics are running 50:50 for any couple that gets married these days to stay married.
From seeing what happened to my brother and sister, I feel everybody takes both a huge emotional and financial whack when divorce occurs. There are no winners.
As for the guy with the 120 $350 hives, I did personally feel that he was treated very unjustly by the courts. I know him well enough to know he is a -- shall we say -- very thrifty fellow, so once he decided to go bigger than 4 colonies, he went for all used equipment. I know he paid a whole lot less for used woodenware than I ever did. So that price setting hit him like a line drive "up side the head." His investment in those 120 colonies was more time, gas, and wear & tear on the truck than dollars and cents.
I admit I wasn't thinking about the potential for earning being a factor in the Court needing to set a fair market value. I guess we just went through a winter up here where many beekeepers lost half or two-thirds of their colonies. It's hard to remember there will be a future income stream when you see guys all around you looking at how to build back up from such losses. When you are a hobby beekeeper like me, a bad winter is just sad and frustrating. I don't know how somebody who is really depending on that lost honey income can take such a blow and keep going.
You mention you do not want to have a discussion on divorce, then go out and post a lengthy post on divorce.
Based on the term "Community" that the original post indicated, then 50/50 split is what happens in community property divorce cases. If Mississippi feels different, then good for that state. Obviously the discussion was on the price of the hives in question, and not on whether the wife sat around and did nothing, shopped all day, or participated in the bee venture. Did he take care of the house, spend more time with the kids, pull his weight around other duties? Don't know. How was the other "community" property dispersed? Did he get 50% of something that she could claim he had nothing to do with? Did her family help more over the years than his? Can't say. But your post went on to add that for some reason you dissagree with the courts decision to disperse property. Then you throw in your own experiences and use this as some way to say my comment is wrong, or you do not agree.
I assume the courts made the decision on the law of that state, and based on what was presented to them. Besides the price that is in question, (and already commenting that he had weak or no legal representation) what do you base your experience that the court made a wrong decision to split "community" property based on West Virginia law?
I went on the bases of what happens in community property divorce cases, and you went on to add comments based on what? I don't remember reading about the wifes habits, or anything else that you could base your comments suggesting I am wrong. Sounds to me your a little bitter, and that was probably brought about by your lack of understanding the laws whan you went through it yourself. I'm sure you will do better with it in the future.
"A little bitter" is the understatement of the day... still PO'ed about it is more accurate. I only threw in a couple of points that was on my mind... I didn't really say much or try to continue the discussion... but I should have known that what I said would bring responses... so.. should I add two more cents worth??? Ahhhh... wrong place, wrong posts, etc etc. I'll drop it here. But I wanna say ONE more thing.. short and sweet... if half was the wifes then she should have gotten 60 hives... NOT 1/2 of the value (350 dollars!!!!?????) of 120 hives. I also said I got maybe the best deal I ever saw a man get in divorce.. and I DID read the law... straight from the state law books in my attorney's office, BUT... I know MANY good guys/work hard to provide/faithful whose wives just got bored and took them to the cleaners...working 5 years AFTER the divorce to pay off debt that some judge decided he should pay, while his EX is living/owning the house he has worked 15 years to pay for, driving a new car that he paid for, and "doing" some lazy scum who don't even have a job (she doesn't either BTW} when she wouldn't even take care of her husbands needs when she was married to him.
MY Ex hasn't had a job in 7 years since she left my dwelling... and we have 4 kids... I DO pay my share... and MORE. I don't want my kids to go without, and I take care of them. and SHE??? has so many friends... spends her days hanging out with other non-working Moms... knows all the social scoop at any time.... etc etc...
ENOUGH.... I will not respond to this posts again...
I said what I said.... but I am through now.
SORRY.... : (