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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Springfield New Jersey
    Posts
    119

    Post

    If only treating with Apistan once a tear which is better, to treat in the spring or fall? I have only treated so far in the fall but then again my lone hive is only going into their second year. I would think that tne fall would seem more productive because the treatment would kill off most of the mites in the fall leaving the overwintered hive more mite free and possibly more resistant. All newborn bees would be in theory mostly mite free in the spring , or not hmmm tell me? p.s what other more natural treatments are people using FGMO etc and how can these be obtained? I rarely see these on beekeeping sites. pharmacy? chem supply?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,553

    Post

    http://www.beesource.com/pov/kim/thinktwice.htm

    Here's one POV.

    I think fall is best because it's the same mites you will be killing in the spring, since no brood is reared in the winter really, so why not kill them before they suck the life out of your bees all winter?

    Either way will work about as well.

    Personally I don't use Apistan at all anymore since it failed completely to kill my mites last time I used it. I'm doing FMGO, small cell, and oxalic acid.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    Greetings xen;

    Treatment of any kind, should always be based on NEED.

    Do you need to treat this spring? Have you been monitoring your hive's mite load? How heavily infested is the hive, NOW?

    METHODS of MONITORING include:
    1) Sticky-board Test (w/SSB or Screen Insert)
    2) Hive Debris
    3) Frame Inspection
    4) Brood Inspection
    5) Powder Sugar-Shake
    6) Ether Roll
    7) Bee Wash
    8) Heat

    CULTURAL CONTROL METHODS include:
    1) Restricting Queen - Breaks brood cycle, allowing bees to clean out diseased or damaged brood.
    2) Drone Brood Removal
    3) Small Cell Bees

    PHYSICAL / MECHANICAL CONTROL:
    1) Screened Bottom Board (or Beltsville Insert)
    2) Dusting w/ Sugar or Flour
    3) Scraping off mites w/ pollen trap

    GENETIC CONTROL:
    1) Genetic bees
    2) Hygienic Behavior
    3) Natural Resistance Selection

    BIOCONTROL:
    1) Fungal Pathogens
    . . A. Hirsutella
    . . B. Metarhizium
    . . C. M. anisopliae (Bio-Blast)

    CHEMICAL CONTROL METHODS - Many of the 140 or so chemicals used worldwide are toxic to bees and beekeepers.
    1) "SOFT" CHEMICALS:
    . . A. Formic-Organic Acid, 61-98% Effective
    . . B. Lactic-Organic Acid, 41-99%
    . . C. Oxalic-Organic Acid, 82-99%
    . . D. Thymol-Essential Oil, 54-98% (Apiguard-Thymol)
    . . E. Wintergreen Oil-Essential Oil
    . . F. Spearmint Oil-Essential Oil
    . . G. Sucrocide-Insectical Soap, 68-99%
    . . H. Minerial Oil, 69.4%
    . . I. Tobacco Smoke
    2) "Hard" CHEMICALS:
    . . A. Apistan-Fluvalinate, 95-99% Effective
    . . B. Apitol-Cymiazole, 83-98%
    . . C. Apivar-Amitraz, 90-99%
    . . D. Bayvarol-Flumethrin, 95-99%
    . . E. CheckMite+-Perizin Coumaphos, 85-99%
    . . F. Folbex-Bromopropylate, 55-90%



    ------------------
    Dave W . . .

    Hobbist - 1 Hive
    First Package - Apr 03
    Broodnest - 3 Deeps
    Screened Bottom Board
    Apistan - Aug 18, 03
    Grease Patties - All year
    03/04 Winter Loss - 0%

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,553

    Post

    >BIOCONTROL:
    >1) Fungal Pathogens
    >. . A. Hirsutella
    >. . B. Metarhizium
    >. . C. M. anisopliae (Bio-Blast)

    I can find the following on these:

    A. Hirsutella http://www.nal.usda.gov/ttic/tektran...000136200.html

    M. anisopliae http://esa.confex.com/esa/2002/techp...paper_7285.htm

    B. Metarhizium ? is this really Metarhizium anisopliae?

    Metarhizium anisopliae http://esa.confex.com/esa/2002/techp...paper_7285.htm

    But where do you get any of them? I found nothing on bio-blast. Do you have a link or other info on it?

    >. . I. Tobacco Smoke
    I've seen some research on this and it was not very effective until the dosage was high enough to harm the bees. I have tried it and actually find that Tobacco smoke is a very effective calming agent in small amounts, but if you smoke them heavily it will cause the bees to pass out on the bottom board in a pile.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,468

    Post

    Yes, fall treatment is fine, but it means you need to treat at least one brood cycle before the bees start to cluster. You need to prevent the bees from entering the cell nad damaging the workers, the very workers that winter the colony over. It is not the mite that kills the colony over winter, it is the damage the mite does to the wintering bee that kill sthe hive over winter. My flow takes me well into fall, so I dont take my supers off intime to fall treat. If I had to I would, but spring treatmetn makes most sence to my operation.
    I hate mites

    Ian

  6. #6
    jfischer Guest

    Post


    >> BIOCONTROL:
    >> 1) Fungal Pathogens
    >> . . A. Hirsutella
    >> . . B. Metarhizium
    >> . . C. M. anisopliae (Bio-Blast)

    > I can find the following on these:

    > M. anisopliae
    > Metarhizium ? is this really Metarhizium anisopliae?

    Yes, same fungus.

    > But where do you get any of them?

    As there is no EPA, FDA, or WTO OIE-SPS approval, there
    are no production quantities yet being made, nor is it
    yet available for sale.

    Fischer Alchemy has made formal application for, and has
    been working with the USDA for the last few months on a
    technology license for the USDA-patented innovation (using
    Metarhizium anisopliae to combat varroa). We hope to bring
    this product to market under a USDA license much sooner than
    has been the usual case with bee products that require EPA
    and/or FDA approval, and I have my legal beagle doing the
    paperwork to create a non-profit limited partnership
    ("Fungi Fun Guys, LLC") to produce and distribute a packaged
    product utilizing Metarhizium in cooperation with some other
    beekeeping houses with names that are familiar to all.

    We expect to sell this stuff at cost. If we make any profits
    by mistake, we will give the money to the EAS bee research
    fund, as we do with Bee-Quick.

    We hope that the bee supply dealers will share our strategy of
    "a rising tide raises all boats", and realize that not making
    a profit on a mission-critical "must have" item like effective
    and food-grade varroa control will generate more revenue, and
    hence, more profits in sales on the other items that they sell.

    > I found nothing on bio-blast.

    The company went bust, as "bio-control" companies have a
    regular habit of doing. They were EPA-approved for only
    cockroaches and/or termites.

    Metarhizium is very impressive. I like it so much, I am
    spending lots of money to "productize" it. But don't hold
    your breath, as there is a big difference between a promising
    research project, and a viable commercial product. I have
    no idea what gremlins might pop up.

    There are rumors of others wanting to market Metarhizium as
    a varroa control. If they show us that they will do it right,
    and at a reasonable price, we may hand them our license on a
    silver platter to satisfy the usual "exclusive" that every
    for-profit gang of capitalists thinks they need.


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