Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 58
  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Good idea Man O' War, why you could probably even sue her (if she didn't die) for stealing your bees!

    >laywers can be hired to litigate against common sense.

    Too true Keith. In similar fashion, politicians can be hired to legislate against common sense and insurance companies can be hired to insure against common sense. As you say, it happens all the time.

    My father used to say that society gets the kind of crime it deserves. I think the same principle is at work in these situations.

    >That said, I have in fact been sued.

    I figured as much. People whose first thought is "Get Insurance" usually have been sued [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Sorry to about it too. Where did the concept of personal responsibility for one's own actions go? Had you not been insured and the case went to court, would the jury have awarded the man your house? Interesting question.

    >As to waivers....... most will tell you they aren't worth the paper they are made of.

    So true. Not all waivers fit that bill, but many of them do. There have been a number of cases settled by the courts in favor of people who had signed away their rights and ended up damaged. A famous case involved a railroad that printed a waiver on the back side of their tickets stating that if there was a train accident, the bearer of the ticket better get their body off the tracks and outside of the railroad right of way so as not to interfere with railroad business. The waiver was supposedly in-force when someone bought the ticket. The court decided otherwise.

    Similar laws were put in place to eliminate practices on the part of employers that had prospective employees sign away their rights as a condition of employment. The courts held that a person was entitled to sign anything to get a job to feed their family.

    So I wouldn't put much faith in waivers to absolve you from liability, either real, or perceived.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    People often say "you can't get blood out of a rock". Trouble is that even though you may not have much a judgement can garnish future earning for the rest of your life....

    Man O War... good solution.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    >a judgement can garnish future earning for the rest of your life....

    In such a situation one might be inclined to take matters into one's own hands. Or, change your name, get a wig, sunglasses, and a sex change operation.

    If one is negligent or otherwise at cause for someone's misfortune, then one should be held responsible. The situation has developed now where people live in fear of being held responsible for things that are not their fault at all. Insurance makes it all possible. Lawyers are the instruments of injustice. The innocent are held accountable. Society is to blame.

    Now I'm depressed. It's time for a nap.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,671

    Post

    "you can't get blood out of a rock"?
    Isn't that supposed to be "blood out of a turnip"?
    And "water out of a stone"?
    Or is that "you can't get the troops out of a rock"? [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Mark........ There should be punishment for post like that!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,671

    Post

    Oops. Sorry! [img]smile.gif[/img]

    [size="1"][ April 08, 2006, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: sqkcrk ][/size]
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    chilliwack, bc
    Posts
    642

    Post

    every beek should have insurance anyway. the chances that you'll actually use might be slim but you never know and it's usually when you have no insurance that something happens. i have insurance through the bchpa but the only thing they do not cover is injury through apitherapy. i suppose you could get insurance for this somewhere but if you did why not get into it yourself
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,671

    Post

    I think you aught to charge your sting customer enough to cover any costs of the extra insurance that you feel you will need to cover yourself.

    Then she'll be glad to get them from across the other side of the country.

    'Course, you could always sell her a hive of bees and let her deal with all of your expenses herself.

    Barring all of that, have you given any thought to contacting the American Apitherapy Society? Maybe they could provide you with some guidelines and advice.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    >Mark........ There should be punishment for post like that!!!

    Humor has it's own rewards. No honest attempt at it will go unpunished.

    >Barring all of that, have you given any thought to contacting the American Apitherapy Society?

    Duh. Wouldn't that be like, uh, smart?

    Here's a twist. What if someone approached you to obtain bees for apitherapy and you refused, could they then sue you for willfully withholding necessary supplies for their treatment thereby increasing their pain and suffering?

    Only in America I suppose. It's like that last Seinfeld episode where the 4 of them get arrested in a small New Hampshire town for failing to come to the aid of a person whose car was being stolen. Will the "I don't want to get involved" argument protect us from liability?
    Dulcius ex asperis

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hancock, NH
    Posts
    85

    Post

    Wow I thought I was asking a simple question [img]smile.gif[/img] .

    Thanks for all the replies, I will check with my insurance agent. I did get insurance for the bees and products, it will be interesting if the sale of bees is covered. I wonder if this can be considered product liability. Really all I am doing is selling (probably giving as I like the responses from other beekeepers that do this,and maybe she will send me honey sales) her bees, she is the one that decides to use them to sting herself.

    This lady began this some years ago under the direction of her Dr. it worked so well he advised her to get real bees from a beekeeper as opposed to paying for the injection in the doc's office.

    Mark great idea on the American Apitherapy Society, I will try to email them this weekend.

    Thanks Again for all the replies

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,671

    Post

    De nada.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    While taking my nap, I had a nightmare of a dream:

    Ring! Ring!

    "Good day, you've reached the law offices of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe. This is Crystal speaking, how may we be of service?"

    "Uh Hi. I want to sue someone."

    "OK sir, let me get one of our partners to talk with you. Please hold."

    <pirated royalty-free music being played. A few moments go by..>

    "Hello, This is Bud Tugly, Bill Cheatem's personal assistant. I understand you want to sue someone?"

    "Uh Hi. Yes."

    "Anyone in particular?"

    "Uh I dunno. I guess. My life sucks. I've had the flu for 3 weeks, I lost my job. My truck caught on fire, my wife left me, and my dog died. I'm broke and depressed. I need money to ease my pain and suffering. So I thought I'd sue someone."

    "Well OK... Flu, job, truck, wife, dog. Let's see. You say you caught the flu. Any idea who you caught it from? We might be able to sue them if we could prove they didn't wash their hands or sneezed on you or something."

    "Well, I think I caught it from my mother."

    "Oh. I don't suppose you want to sue her. Well, tell me about your job."

    "Well, I got drunk at the company picnic and groped the boss's wife. They fired me the next day."

    "Oh. I see. What about the truck?"

    "Well, I was burning brush in my backyard, the wind came up and fanned the flames and my truck caught on fire. It's ruined."

    "Um.. I don't suppose you had insurance that covered that. OK, what about your wife?"

    "Well she's divorcing me over that boss's wife thing and a few other indiscretions. Your firm is handling the divorce. She gave me your number."

    "OK, we won't go there. What about your dog?"

    "Oh, I'm so sad. We were out hunting, ran across a bee hive and the dog got stung to death."

    "Stung to death? Just like that?"

    "Well, actually, he was just in a lot of pain, yelpin and everything, so I shot him to put him out of his misery."

    "Oh. So he didn't really get stung to death. Was he mad?"

    "Well, I guess he warn't too darn pleased."

    "I see. Did you get stung? Did you have an allergic reaction? Were there any warning or danger signs around the hive? Do you know who the owner of the hive is? Are they rich? Do they have insurance?"

    "Well, I swelled up something powerful, and it itched awful. Like to scratch myself raw. I know the beekeeper, he's my neighbor. Owns a nice house, a double wide. Even took the wheels off it and everything. Sploded tires and flamingos on the lawn, you know. There ain't no signs saying Keep Out so I figured it was OK to be there."

    "What about insurance?"

    "Oh, he's got insurance. We talked about it the other day after he helped put my truck fire out. We used his hose, good thing too cause mine wouldn't reach and my garage woulda caught on fire. He was complaining about how much insurance cost these days."

    "Well sir, I think we can make a case here for aggravated pain and suffering and the loss of your dog as the result of negligence on the part of the owner of the bees. We'll take this case on contingency so you won't have to pay a dime unless we collect. We'll take 80% of whatever we can get outa this guy. You get the other 20%."

    "Well I don't really want to sue him.. he's a nice guy. Gives me a jar of honey every year."

    "Don't worry about it sir. That's why he's got insurance, to compensate people like you who've been damaged through his negligence. To ease your pain and suffering. Look at it this way. You're a victim. You've lost your truck, your dog, your wife, and by the time we're through, your wife and your house. You've got nothing. He's got everything. You DESERVE to be compensated. It's the American Way.

    "Hey that's great! I feel better already!"

    "Glad to hear it. We'll get back to you. I've got to take another call, I think it's your wife. She'll be interested to know you're about to come into a large sum of money."
    Dulcius ex asperis

  14. #34

    Post

    I dont think anyone here (myself included) has answered the topic: How much to charge for Apitherapy ?
    "To bee or not to bee"

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Post

    I'm certainly not a lawyer, but it seem to me that people sell bees (and have for as long as people have kept bees an coined money) and what the buyer does with them is their responsibility. If you don't go around making any medicinal claims about anything, then you're just selling bees, which is an honorable and honest profession with a long history.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Exactly.... Sell some bees. No claims, no worries.

    If you hang a shingle touting to "therapy" anything........ get insurance.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Post

    >How much to charge for Apitherapy ?

    I guess that depends on your point of view. Somewhere between what the market will bear and what it's worth to you.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI, USA
    Posts
    268

    Post

    When I read the first posting in this thread, my answer was very clear. Give her the bees at no charge. I was happy with that thought.

    Then the legal questions arose. Still no big problem. Someone asked for bees. They got them. I didn't make any money. I certainly wasn't out to hurt them.

    Then came:
    Here's a twist. What if someone approached you to obtain bees for apitherapy and you refused, could they then sue you for willfully withholding necessary supplies for their treatment thereby increasing their pain and suffering?
    Now my simple vision has become so complicated that I can't sleep. My appetite is gone due to mental stress. I may not go to work on Monday, or ever again. Thanks, George. Watch your mail box for a letter from my attorney.

    Kidding aside now:
    The lady has MS. She is living a disaster. Even if apitherapy is bogus, living with a bit of hope is better than no hope. Give her some bees or put a hive in her yard. Take up a collection for your costs right here. I'll kick in $20 if you agree to do it that way. I'm sure others will contribute. Just post your paypal details.

    Late edit:
    She doesn't have MS. I was thinking of another thread. Still, arthritis is terrible. Give her that hope. I'll still kick in.

    [size="1"][ April 08, 2006, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Tom Chaudoir ][/size]
    Best,
    Tom

  19. #39
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Well first, let me apologize for my somewhat caustic contributions to this thread- it happens whenever people start talking liability and insurance. I should just walk away from the discussion as I walked away from a perfectly good career (land surveying) after 20 years in the business in large part due to concerns over liability which you really can't realistically insure against. That was 10 years ago. The statute of limitations on errors and ommissions is currently 20 years AFTER the mistake is discovered, so it looks like I'll be taking that liability to my grave. But I don't worry about it, because I always tried to do my very best on every job even when it cost me money and made me uncompetitive- yet another reason why I left the field.

    For what it's worth, I've never been sued for my surveying activities and I don't expect it to happen now. I believe in and carry insurance when there's a palpable and undeniable risk associated with an activity I'm engaged in that might realistically damage other innocent 3rd parties or when required by law to do so such as on my car and truck. I do not insure myself against loss for my own acts or those of God. At my wife's insistance I carry enough life insurance to cover the costs of disposing of my body upon my death and paying off my home mortgage. I currently do not have health insurance, I can't afford it. This bothers me, and I obtain no satisfaction knowing that I am not alone in this regard. Call me naive, call me old fashioned, but I choose to insure against real risks and choose NOT to buy into or support the mass liability hysteria, fear, and loathing that has this country in such a death-grip.

    Go to any big city. Find the biggest building. It will be an insurance company. Not a university or school, not a church, not a hospital, but an insurance company. I think that's significant.

    So when a question comes up about how much to charge someone for bees that they intend to sting themselves with for the purpose of obtaining relief from their pain and suffering, and the only thing people can think about is their own personal liability, I get pissy. Again, I'm sorry. I apologize.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI, USA
    Posts
    268

    Post

    Nuts. Sorry George. I should have peppered in a few of these [img]smile.gif[/img] I really wasn't taking you to task. Sometimes things morph on the way from head to screen.
    Best,
    Tom

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads