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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hancock, NH
    Posts
    85

    Post

    I have a lady who has requested bees for apitherapy for her arthritis. She has been doing this for many years and would like to get them locally. She has been buying them from California and paying for shipping.

    Does anyone know what to charge for bees for this purpose?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Just curious....... Do you have liability insurance for this???? If you don't..... you had better get some!!

    Talk to your lawyer and/or insurance agent. It is a noble calling but cover your arse....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Worthington, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    1,848

    Post

    I would sell her a jar of bees for pet use only or scientific study, would not sell any for apitherapy or alternative medicanal use.
    "Younz" have a great day, I will.

  4. #4

    Post

    I would charge for pollination rental with a written contract. She could have your management of the bees at her house for pollination of her crops. What she does from there is her own business. It could even be a simply built obs hive with trap door to remove a limited number of bees.

    Other option would be they could trespass upon your property.

    I am an RN, so I would be even more careful than most, but also more willing to help

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    No matter what "story" you come up with.... make sure your insurance will handle the fallout.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Mason, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,015

    Post

    I donate bees to 2 women that have MS and just give them the bees. What they do with them is there business. No liability for me but have sold much honey to people that these 2 women have sent to me.
    One woman could hardly walk 2 years ago but now you can hardly tell that she has a problem. The other it has not helped as much but she does say that she has less pain.
    so far I have not missed the small amount of bees given them.
    Clint
    Clinton Bemrose<br />just South of Lansing Michigan<br />Beekeeping since 1964

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Here's the scenario......

    Person you give, rent, whatever,,, bees too is fine stinging themselves. Then, like many we have heard, the next sting is anaphalactic shock and passes away.

    You can bet there will be a law suit and you will have to "lie" that you did not know what they were used for. A good paralegal would probably search this very site.....

    Why risk it if you butt can be covered by insurance??

    Good luck.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,858

    Post

    I have one lady with early MS who comes for bees. I give them to her at no charge. She's kind of a friend and has offered to pay. She does buy honey.

    I also have liability insurance, but it's a "premises and product" policy. I have no idea if it covers her choice in what she does with them in her house, but I'm going to ask my agent.

    Also, I used to shake bees into her gallon jar. She made up some kind of bee food of honey and water soaking on a paper towel in the bottom of the jar, and had the leftover cores from toilet paper rolls for the bees to climb on. Death rates for the bees were high and she would come back frequently for another shaking.

    I made a wire cage to hold one frame from 8-mesh wire. It looks like a long package for package bees with a removable lid. I pull a frame of honey stores and bees and set it into the cage for her to take home. Survivability greatly increased.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Newberg, OR USA
    Posts
    146

    Post

    I say a good beer, or better yet some single malt scotch. [img]smile.gif[/img]

  10. #10

    Post

    Sundance, I have never heard a first person account of anaphylaxis after being stung regularly so I am not accepting of the "like many we have heard" statement.

    I do regularly here people claim an "allergy" problem from bee stings without them knowing what the bee was or without them having a breathng problem.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Wausau Wi
    Posts
    311

    Post

    I have heard of people that get stung a lot and then they get a severe reaction all of the sudden. It is true. Sundance is right, what if that person passes away ??? Then you don't have to worry about it right ?? Well... fine and dandy...untill you start dealing with that families very upset, very money-hungry relatives, that don't give a crap what you think or say about the situation. They will let their lawyers take care of you. And like most beeks I know, theres not a lot of extra attorney money floating around too pay off a lawsuit. So in my opinion I wouldn't mess with these people at all.
    Everything happens for a reason. Time heals all wounds - time and a half heals them even faster

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Boy Sundance is all over the liability issue. Probably not a bad idea, perhaps it comes from having been stung a few times, and I don't mean by bees!

    Now for the Other Perspective.

    There's a big difference between performing apitherapy yourself and providing bees to someone so they can perform apitherapy on themselves or other people. In the former case, your liability is high and you should cover yourself appropriately.

    In the latter case of just supplying bees to other people, where's the liability? If you make knives and sell one to someone and they commit a crime with it, are you liable? No. If you sell a gun to someone and observe all the laws in making that sale and they use the gun in a crime, are you liable? No. If you sell someone some bees and they sting themselves or someone else and a death occurs, are you liable? No. If you sell peanuts to someone and it turns out they're allergic to them and they eat them and die, are you liable? No. Would any jury in the land find you guilty of negligence for failing to acertain whether or not your customer was allergic to peanuts (or bees, or bullets, or knives) before selling them some? Not bloody likely!

    Is a civil suit a possibility in any of the above cases? Sure. Is insurance going to eliminate that risk? No. It's going to increase the chances you'll be sued! You can get sued for walking down the street carrying a placard that distracts a passing motorist so they get in an accident. Should you obtain insurance before walking down the street with that placard? Your call [img]smile.gif[/img]

    I'll grant we live in a litigious society, but the main reason why it has become so litigious is because of insurance! Insurance is the reason many frivolous lawsuits are brought in the first place! Would you bother suing someone if you knew they weren't insured? Probably not, you don't want their trailer or their pickup truck, you want money and lots of it- enough to pay the outrageous lawyer fees associated with collecting it! Would you persist with your lawsuit when you found out they weren't insured? Probably not!

    Kinda makes you want to become an insurance agent, eh?

    Hey here's an idea! Obtain a huge insurance policy covering yourself for negligence in the event your bees sting someone. Surreptitiously find someone and arrange with them to get stung, then sue you. Agree to split the proceeds from the huge insurance settlement resulting from the lawsuit. Probably a good idea to first open a Swiss bank account for the purpose.

    Oops! I think that's fraud
    Dulcius ex asperis

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Osceola, Iowa south central of state
    Posts
    248

    Post

    Kinda makes you want to become an insurance agent, eh?


    Hey, I thought there for a minute sundance WAS an insurance agent!!!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    &gt;Hey, I thought there for a minute sundance WAS an insurance agent!!!

    Nah, Sundance is too nice a guy and too honest to be an insurance agent. I like Bruce. I wouldn't like him if he were an insurance agent [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Dulcius ex asperis

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    LOL.......... Not an insurance agent for sure. In fact I hate paying insurance!!!

    That said, I have in fact been sued. I sold a black powder gun to a guy. He screwed up loading it and BAM, it blew up in his face. I was thankful my homeowners covered the whole incident.

    Umbrella policys of a million dollars are not as expensive as you might think. After the above incident..... I'll never be without one.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    Thanks for the kind words George!! I feel a group hug coming on........

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Columbia, South Carolina USA
    Posts
    2,598

    Post

    "If you make knives and sell one to someone and they commit a crime with it, are you liable? No. If you sell a gun to someone and observe all the laws in making that sale and they use the gun in a crime, are you liable? No."

    Good points, but laywers can be hired to litigate against common sense. Happens all the time.

    Keith

    Bees dont kill people, people kill people.

    You can have my bees when you pry them from my cold dead hands
    Bee Sting Honey - So Good, It Hurts!

  18. #18

    Post

    I would make them sign a waiver, stating that you are in no way,liable for any injuries incurred with these bees. If you buy a package of bees and get stung badly, maybe even hospitalized, are you going to sue the guy who sold you the bees? Is he liable? I dont think so.
    "To bee or not to bee"

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    There is a major difference in selling bees to a beekeeper and selling bees for medical purposes. A whole plane of liability opens.

    As to waivers....... most will tell you they aren't worth the paper they are made of. In fact it is often seen as an admission that you knew of the inherant danger of bee stings, yet did it anyway.

    Do the waiver, but have insurance.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    North Texas, USA
    Posts
    61

    Post

    Set up a hive in her yard . . .

    Give her one big jar of honey for rental of the
    space. If anything bad happens, you had no
    idea that she was taking bees from it &lt;wink&gt;
    “It is only as the intelligence of man moves along harmoniously with<br />the laws of Nature, that any improvement can be expected.”<br /><br />G. M. Doolittle

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