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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,290

    Post

    >>Give me one reason why virus spores would not live on in the deadout comb? Thats what spores do (nosema & foulbrood)


    Thats what I'm asking.If my assumptions are wrong,then a change in comb management will have to be looked at.I thought viruses had to have a live host to keep going.Is that wrong?

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    Once again Bob, what you said may or may not be true. And once again, let’s not everyone jump to conclusions. No one here has as yet ridiculed your theory, but let’s be aware that it is simply a theory. In fact it isn’t something brand new that has just been thought out, either. A couple of years or so ago, over on the former Yahoo Biological Beekeeping site there was some discussion about PMS and at least one person strongly advised a newer beekeeper who reported the classical symptoms of PMS to burn his equipment because it would, he claimed, have contained viral spores. As I wrote previously: “>Several of us believe..
    I think those are the magic words”

    Some of my hives have had their share of mites up here and also showed the symptoms of PMS. I’ve reused those combs with no problems as long as the mites are kept down. If the mites get out of hand PMS will likely show up again. But then it showed up on new comb, too in the first place.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    The spores last for years. They lie dormant WAITING for a host. Is what makes the deadly virus
    of past epidemics so problematic.

    I have had indepth conversations with researchers ( both in the U.S. and other countries) on the subject concerning virus & honey bees.

    PMS samples always detect virus and always more than one.

    The researchers are divided in their opinions.

    One side believes my hypothesis is correct on all points.

    The other side believes that bee virus can be found in any bee hive. I certainly agree BUT a PMS deadout has got a thousand times if not tens of thousands (millions? Billions?) of times the spores of the normal hive.

    All agree (at least to my face) that research needs to be done to prove one way or the other.

    From working directly with beekeepers that have lost most their hives (up to 2000 hives with two).
    We were always told by our best beekeeping mind to simply install another swarm *after 7 days* (varroa dies without a host).

    Long documented observation:
    Before long we observed that the deadouts with PMS were the first to show pms again when varroa controls were below the 90% varroa kill range.

    The reason for my concern.

    our current research involves a thousand PMS deadout boxes reused with only a light cleaning. Should know if the PMS spore problem is a valid concern. But only if the beekeeper decides not to treat until late because if he gets a high 90% varroa kill PMS will not raise its ugly head.

    I hope my hypothesis is wrong! I pray I am wrong!

    I believe I am right!
    Bob Harrison

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    I believe I am right!
    Isn't that a universal truth for everyone?

    Anyway, always enjoy reading your posts, Bob, and maybe this fall or winter I'll get to make your acquaintance in person at one of the conventions.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,408

    Post

    I've never been much for the "germ" theory of diseases. "Germs" are everywhere, ooops, sorry Jim, "germs" are endemic. "Germs" are opportunists. Give them the opportunity and they will take it. Don't give them the opportunity and they won't.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
    Posts
    1,998

    Post

    Related to both PMS and opportunistic diseases, do any of the commercial beekeepers out there have set comb culling/disinfection protocols or is it on an "as needed" basis. I had read in one of brother Adam's books that Buckfast abby used to reduce pathogen loads through routine disinfection (with bleach?) If Buckbee is out there, I would be interested to hear if this is still the case.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    I changed all my comb after I quit using chemical strips. Took three years for me. The hardest part is looking at a perfect comb and then melting down or burning. The dark ugly comb was easy!

    I have sterlized comb with a clorox solution. No way of knowing if the process worked. I use a clorox solution quite a bit around the bee farm. I keep a one gallon spray tank with the solution.
    When ever I pick up a two wheel skid I spray with clorox solution before loading supers. When ever I use a super storage skid I spray the top with the solution.
    I use the spray tank to get in hard to reach areas before extracting. I use on floors and on my mop bucket.
    I don't look at the germ problem as bad as Howard Hughes did but I do avoid contamination if possible.
    I never eat without washing my hands and get few colds. I am a health food junkie and very picky about what I eat.
    If a fast food place looks dirty I will walk out and go another place. Has pissed a few friends off. They call me Howard Hughes at times! They are always sick with colds etc.!
    Like Howard I do feel like withdrawing from public life but the search for intelligent life forms keeps me around people!
    Bob Harrison

  8. #68
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    1,933

    Post

    Bob,
    if your still eating at fast food places you haven't graduated to the level of health food Junkie's as my wife and I are. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    I can't wait to read your research. I've been soaking up as much as I can here lately as I am shopping for a Masters Degree. I don't know how much of a chance I have hear at my local University, but Entomology with beekeeping would be ideal. In line with what you are looking at I was thinking about checking out this article

    Apidologie 35 (2004) 359-364
    DOI: 10.1051/apido:2004022
    Old honey bee brood combs are more infested by the mite Varroa destructor than are new brood combs
    Giancarlo A. Piccirilloa, b and David De Jong

    and have read this one,

    Journal of Apicultural Research 40(1): 00–00 (2001)
    Effects of comb age on honey bee colony growth and brood survivorship
    JENNIFER A BERRY;KEITH S DELAPLANE

    They don't have anything to do with PMS But, they both are pointing at old comb being detrimental to colonies when compared with new comb. I'm sure you've read them. Despite what future steps I take in School, I find beekeeping research interesting arm chair reading. I figure thats at least one thing going for me.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    medesto,indiana,usa
    Posts
    257

    Post

    A virus could be latent in a bee population.Once the hive is stressed due to mites or whatever the virus is able to get a foot hold.Bees are constantly exchanging body fluids so a virus could spread like wild fire.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    Franc makes excellent points and uses a word I should have.
    Stressed.
    Stress of commercial beekeeping weakens the bee immune system in my opinion. Also the immune system of the beekeeper!
    Bob Harrison

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