Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 70
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    833

    Post

    @naturebee

    http://www.apis.admin.ch/host/varroa/ca3686.htm
    http://www.apis.admin.ch/host/doc/pd...ussbericht.pdf

    Please study the page and don’t tell me OA is danger to honeybees. There are several more on the Internet from Switzerland, Finland, Germany and so on.

    If you still believe OA is danger to brood, bees or queens it’s up to you, hold it for yourself and don’t confuse beginners, your wasting space on this forum with your comments.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    1,933

    Post

    I went back and reread my collection of Oxalic research and couldn't find where overdosing kills bees. I must have confused that with other organic acids. I found only small increases in winter loss that were due to undertermined reasons, unknown connection to Oxalic.
    Common sense would lead to believe that it harms bees, but who knows. If its the low PH that kills the mites, perhaps the bees tolerate the low PH while the mites don't, and maybe something else than PH with the Formic and Thymol that can kill bees? I don't know just hypothesizing. Has anyone killed bees by overdosing Oxalic? If so than it is toxic to bees at a high enough concentration, just like it is toxic to us.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    We have killed brood with both OA, thymol & formic in hot weather.
    Most recommend OA be only used in the broodless period.
    Only on this forum have I seen OA recommended for periods of brood rearing and hot weather.
    Bob Harrison

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    Exceptional post MichaelW. Nothing I could add would make it any more to the point and more clear! Thanks.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Western Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,071

    Post

    Michael,
    Try traping bees in the woods, ferals are there, and I have had great success this year doing just that. Best Wishes,

    Jim,
    I named the Pa DOA in the Apistan mistake!

    Axtmann,
    Please read Bob Harrisons letter!

    And Axtmann,,,, If you still believe OA is safe to brood, bees or queens it’s up to you, hold it for yourself and don’t confuse beginners, your wasting space on this forum with your comments. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Rob,
    Excellent post! That’s good honest information you have provided! This is an example of truth in posting and takes allot of guts to go against the grain if need be. This is good info in that it gives new bees a view of the dangers of OA, and the importance of ’reading the labeled instructions’.
    Best Wishes

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    88

    Post

    I've kept bees going on three years. No chemical treatments for varroa. All comb is drawn Plasticell. Though I've done counts and seen varroa on my bees, I've yet to lose a colony. I now have 8 colonies. No chemicals used on any. They are all very strong and healthy. I've have one Kona Queen Italian and the rest are Wilbanks Italian. I'm very happy being chemical free.
    What are we, men or Beekeepers?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    Greeting PaulR . . .

    Do you use SBBs?

    What are you present mite counts?

    thanx,
    Dave W

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >We have killed brood with both OA, thymol & formic in hot weather.
    Most recommend OA be only used in the broodless period.
    Only on this forum have I seen OA recommended for periods of brood rearing and hot weather.

    Bob, I can't help but wonder if there isn't confusion caused by not stating the type of application of OA.

    Marion Ellis at our club meeting last spring stated that his experiments MAY have ill effected the brood, but he was using the trickle method. He bought a crack pipe from me that I had attached to a plexi top cover to run some experiments this year with vaporizing.

    With there being three types of OA application, I think we should always state the type of application that we are using just to make sure the readers know the differance.

    I have only used the vapor method, and have used it with brood in the hive. I have also wondered if it was hurting the brood. I can see that it could damage the eggs, but think that a larva "swimming" in royal jelly or food could be protected to some degree. But, if losing eight days of brood production to rid a hive of all varroa, well, that could be a good trade off depending on the time of year.

    If the analogie of bees breathing OA is bad for them because it is bad for us, perhaps soapy water might be harmful to us as it kills bees.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    88

    Post

    The first year I did not use SBB. I had varroa mite counts below 60. I started using SBB last fall. All of my hives, two last year, came through winter with flying colors. I don't do varroa counts because it does appear to be a problem. However, I have checked drone pupae and have not seen any varroa on the pupae. I attribute this to good management and the inherent hygienic traits of my bees. I've only seen two dozen or so SHB in my 8 hives over the course of this year.
    What are we, men or Beekeepers?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    >I attribute this to good management . . .

    Sure wish you would share your secrets [img]smile.gif[/img]

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    Bill,
    The problem with the OA is also how much control are you getting. What percent?

    Medhat Naser has done quite a bit of OA research.
    In the broodless period he says OA is very effective.

    Bill R. (mitegone) has said similar things about formic acid. If the dose is not correct control is not at a level to provide a high percent control.

    When the dose is correct with formic acid according to Bill R. you should have a small amount of brood kill. Bill suggests trial testing 6 hives to determine the amount (grams) of formic acid to use.

    People on lists over simplfy using OA & formic. Yes both will kill some varroa (as will nicotine and citrus leaves) but what per cent control are you getting.

    The strips Apistan & checkmite gave an honest 98% varroa kill at the start. Both are worthless in my area. In the early days of varroa the bee supply house tossed out the strips and YES they both (without a doubt) completely controlled the varroa mite.

    Now we enter a new era in beekeeping. All the methods talked about on this list depend on many factors to work. Such as temp, sealed brood, dosage and at times humidity.

    None in my opinion will save a hive showing signs of PMS!

    Test! Test! Test! Keep a watch on your varroa loads.

    August is the time to treat for varroa and not the broodless period of November in Missouri if you have a high infestation in August. Eight weeks is simply to long a time for out of control varroa reproduction. Once a hive reaches a certain level of varroa infestation treating is a waste of time and money! Been there and done that! The hive will not rebound!

    in my opinion many underestimate the varroa mite.

    The varroa mite has caused more beekeepers to quit beekeeping than any other factor.

    Any time varroa control drops below 90% virus problems start. PMS.

    One of the largest beekeepers in the world recently left beekeeping because of not being a cure for bee virus problems and no easy way to keep varroa control over the 90% level.

    Having seen whole outfits devestated by varroa I only issue a warning to keep aware of varroa load in your hives.

    Varroa & tracheal mites are silent killers for the uninformed beekeeper. The hive dies over winter so the beekeeper blames the winter weather!
    Bob Harrison

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >Medhat Naser has done quite a bit of OA research.
    In the broodless period he says OA is very effective.

    Again, this is exactly what I meant. What kind of application was he using? Vapor, trickle, or misting?

    I have gleaned that the effectivness of vapor is more effective than trickle, and trickle more effective than misting. We can't assertain the results given in any report not knowing what types of application is being studied.

    My methodiology is not to provide a varroa free hive for the colony, but a level that they can cope with. Completely removing the load may reduce their ability to deal with the mite. (IMO)

    My intention is after harvest, (very soon), do a 24 hur drop reading and vaporize (electric) any hive (3 mediums) with more than 30 mites with one treatment. That's 10 mites per medium brood. Knowing that there is still brood present, this should give me a good knock down without completely removing the mite load. Another test in November after the goldenrod flow will indicate what hives should need further treatment before winter sets in.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    88

    Post

    <One of the largest beekeepers in the world recently left beekeeping because of not being a cure for bee virus problems and no easy way to keep varroa control over the 90% level.

    Who was this? What methodologies did they employ that didn't work? Is there a write-up about them somewhere? I would love to read about their operation.
    What are we, men or Beekeepers?

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    "What methodologies did they employ that didn't work"

    If you Sir think the PMS virus problem is a myth then you are in for a rough road in future beekeeping!

    I suppose in the future I will write the Bell Honey Co. story for the bee magazines. I have been asked.

    I was his partner at the start. We bought outfits together and worked bees side by side. Beekeeping was both our projects in FFA and vocational Agriculture. Grew up a mile from each other. I consider Horace Bell a close and dear friend. One of the few people which never tried to cheat or lie to me!

    Around at the end (if the story is over as the published rumor in the Florida Times Union in "98" of his retirement proved later to be false).

    I am now running equipment with Bell Honey co. stamped on it. I tried to buy his hive tool and smoker last trip to Florida but he laughed and declined. If you are really retiring why would you need a hive tool & smoker I asked?

    Bell Honey sold a reported 97,000 hives last year.

    Bob Adee (Richards brother) told me while I was unloading a semi load of Adee honey (for a packer in Harrisonville, Missouri a couple months ago) Richard Adee never ran as many hives. So it would seem Horace Bell Honey now has the reccord for the most hives on the ground in the U.S. in a single year.

    In the book "Following the Bloom" by Doug Whynott chapter 15-19 are devoted to Bell Honey Co.

    Methodologies?????

    "What we don't know is so vast it makes what we do know seem absurd" Bob Harrison
    Bob Harrison

  15. #35
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    88

    Post

    Bob thanks. I had no idea. I've only heard rumors of PMS. Now I am waiting with bated breath on the story, perhaps beginning with the magazine article and then in book form.
    What are we, men or Beekeepers?

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    Paul,
    You might also find the following press release of interest as your state borders Florida..

    http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/press/2005/07192005.html
    Bob Harrison

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,359

    Post

    Some years back ABJ ran an article (from memory) about some hives in South America .Wilbanks and Taber stock.These hives were carrying huge loads of varroa with no sign of any problems.They concluded that it was because these hives werent harboring viruses.Once viruses enter the picture it takes much less varroa to trigger it.Theres not much sadder sight than whole yards full of weak and dying hives full of dead brood.After that happens,you tend to take varroa MUCH more seriously.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,649

    Post

    >I've only heard rumors of PMS.

    It's sometimes confused with foulbrood by inexperienced beekeepers.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    medesto,indiana,usa
    Posts
    257

    Post

    Ive used O/A and Ive never had a high brood die off or has it affected or slowed down the queens production that I can tell.I use the crack pipe vapor method.Ive treated hives that Ive grafted out of latter and couldn't see any problem with the larvae making good queens. Ive never seen any of the results your talking about.I've had better results using O/A then apistan and for a fraction of the cost.Yeah Ive had bees attack the pipe end and end up getting burned or over dosing but they are actually right on the pipe when Im treating.I think the reason for treating hives with O/A during colder weather is 1) The bees are clustered together and all together not with field bees flying all over the place. 2)Theres alot less fanning during cold weather on a warm or hot day unless the hives is sealed up its almost impossible to get complete coverage because the bees fan like theres not tomorrow. 3) You don't need repeat treatments because your exposing all the mites to the O/A because theres no brood so no mites in the cells. 4) Its after the supers have been taken off and honey collected. From what I understand the mite starves to death the O/A disablies their feeding tube and they just live until they weaken and die.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    You shouldn't see any dead brood if you follow your four steps above.

    Larva are very sensitive to strong doses of both OA & formic acid. Not rocket science. Why wouldn't they be franc?

    How do you keep from overdosing with the crack pipe?

    What level of control do you get with the crack pipe. Ever checked? What was your 24 hour drop before treatment? After treatment?

    Ever inhale a big dose of OA fumes from the pipe?
    Bob Harrison

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads