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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    west monroe LA USA
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    60

    Post

    I pulled a couple of frames worth of honey yesterday. The honey was awesomely good. I did see some of those little black hive beetles though. I have already purchased the beetle swatter traps from Brushy Mountain. Is is safe to install them with a checkmite strip now while the bees are putting up their surplus honey? Or, should I wait until the honey flow is over. I would like to eliminate them as quick as I can.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    west monroe LA USA
    Posts
    60

    Post

    Also, what damage do the beetles do in my hive. I think they lay eggs in the brood but I am not sure. They havent affected my honey from what I have seen, but they were up in the second honey super when I saw them.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wetumpka ,Alabama
    Posts
    510

    Post

    Do not treat your hives if you have honey supers on for human consumption...Only treat after you take the supers off...The beetles do lay everywhere in the hive,you can't see the eggs but they are there...Also extract all your honey supers as soon as you can or all the honey will be ruined and larva will be everywhere.
    These pest can kill an entire hive.Here are some pictures of a split I did this summer which did not make it because of these beetles..
    http://home.elmore.rr.com/kingbeeapiary/feedback.htm

    Do treat your hives,it has helped mine so far,but wait until the flow is over,and keep your hives strong so they can defend themselves.

    Good luck.
    If you build it they will comb it.<br />Tim Rolan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

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    The thought of larva and eggs everywhere makes me question the honey supply.....

    Sounds likely that the rascals are in every jar of store honey by now...... Yuck!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sawyer, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,115

    Post

    I agree with King bee apiary, don’t treat until you pull the last of your honey, one other suggestion, use Guard Star as a ground drench. It works in concert with your bee swatter treatment. I also found that if you are using a SBB place the swatter just under the inner cover. The beetles like to hide and with the SBB they seem to stay away from bottom board. I discovered a bunch of them under the piece of aluminum I had menthol treatment on.
    The Busy Bee teaches two lessons: One is not to be idle and the other is not to get stung.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    Bruce, not to worry. They remove the skins prior to bottling, and the rest is all protein. ENJOY!!! I told you you shouldn't have shown me those Graemlins.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wetumpka ,Alabama
    Posts
    510

    Post

    Give me your opinions on placing a tray under the entire hive covered with a screen (to keep the ladies out) filled with used motor oil/veg oil? Basically to keep the larva from maturing into adults as they crawl out of the hives? I know this sounds alot like the shb trap they sell out of the catalogs but you don't have to wait on shippment...maybe cheaper too...
    If you build it they will comb it.<br />Tim Rolan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    124

    Post

    Holy smokes those are ugly critters!
    Two roads diverged in a wood and I - I took the one less traveled by...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Post

    KBA

    it sounds just like a store bought trap
    I think I'd just try to make sure I did it some way that would keep rain out of it so it doesn't become a mess

    (saving money is good)

    Dave

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    west monroe LA USA
    Posts
    60

    Post

    I have seen about ten beetles running through my hive. Do I need to harvest now then treat them, or wait until later. Should I burn the frames? I am about distressed over the thought of losing my precious little bees.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    942

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    For what it's worth, I have seen several beetles running through some very strong hives for a couple years now with no sign of damage. I would not burn any frames. But do keep an eye on them, because if the hive becomes weak for any reason, the SHB may run rampant.

    A greased up sticky board under a SBB will catch any larva that fall through. I think that relieves some of the pressure on the bees to get them hauled out.

    I have never tried Gardstar, but I don't think it will help much as these rascals can fly much further than you can drench the ground.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Milford, MI
    Posts
    328

    Post

    Do I need to harvest now then treat them?
    No need to harvest just because you found SHB, but I have noticed that any time you disturb the hive such as inspecting, it triggers the beetles to lay thousands of eggs. Sometimes you come back a few days after inspection and find multiple frames completely covered in SHB larvae.
    Should I burn the frames?
    Burning the frames will do nothing in your fight against the beetles, what you need to do is burn the SHB. On the other hand, if you have frames that are infested with SHB larvae, the best method of elimination is to freeze the frames for at least 24 hours.

    Steve,
    I have never tried Gardstar, but I don't think it will help much as these rascals can fly much further than you can drench the ground.
    The larvae do not fly, therefore the ground drench is very effective in killing the larvae, which need to burrow in the ground to pupate.

    Unfortunately the bees do tend to carry out the larvae and fly off with them, instead of killing them. This just aids in the spread of the larvae.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sawyer, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,115

    Post

    Phoenix:

    Do you have a lot of trouble with SHB in Michigan? Or do you pick them up in different areas?
    The Busy Bee teaches two lessons: One is not to be idle and the other is not to get stung.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    King Bee, I'll be glad if I never have to look at pictures like those again. You haven't ruined my day, just my morning. That box-O-worms reminds me of rotting roadkill seething with maggots.

    Here in Maine the only SHB we have come up from down south in nucs and migratory beekeeper's hives, and I've encountered a few beetles/worms in my hives, but the bees seem to keep them under control. Folks say they won't over winter in this climate... I surely hope not. Those of you who live where SHB breed, you have my sympathy.

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Milford, MI
    Posts
    328

    Post

    Yes Brent, we have had a heck of a time the past two years with SHB, right here in Mid-Michigan.

    The commercial keeper I worked for had never seen them 'til last year. I got my packages from him last spring, and shortly thereafter had new comb infested with SHB larvae. My boss didn't know what they were, but due to the research I had been doing on the web I suspected SHB. It wasn't 'til later that we discovered dead-outs and weak hives in a few of his yards being taken over by SHB, and coincidentally there was a common demoninator between his infested hives and mine... All yards had packages installed that were brought up from Georgia in the same shipment.

    Do a search for my postings, and you will see some of my ramblings on this subject. Heed my warnings and be careful of where you purchase your packages.

    I have developed a bait trap to deliver a bio-control agent to the beetles, that does not allow the bees access. The delivery system I have figured out, the bio-control agent is still sketchy.

    I hate chemicals in my hives but for those that use them, this bait trap will work to deliver whatever means necessary(chemicals, biocides or fungicides).

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Post

    Phoenix,

    in some other discussion of SHB folks were talking about potential bio-control agents. The discussion was about BT-401, which is for moths. I suggested that for a beetle pest we have around here (japanese beetle) we use something called milky spore. I have no idea if it would be effective against SHB but it might be worth a try. I've put some around my hive but since I don't currently have a SHB problem I can't tell if it works.

    Dave

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Milford, MI
    Posts
    328

    Post

    Thanks Dave, I am looking into Milky Spore, which also contains a form of BT. The problem is getting the SHB larvae to consume the BT, as with all forms of BT, if the host does not injest the spores it will not be effective.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sawyer, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,115

    Post

    Phoenix:

    Can you give some details about your bait trap to deliver bio-control agents? I would be interested, in 2003 I got SHB in packages form Texas. Didn’t see any last year, this week I noticed a couple in honey supers, but could not tell which hive they came form. I only have 14 hives and all are very strong. So far I haven’t seen any damage I have been using Guard Star for ant control looks like I need to get the beetle swatters back out.
    The Busy Bee teaches two lessons: One is not to be idle and the other is not to get stung.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Post

    the japanese beetle grubs eat the roots of grass while they're in the soil and injest the milky spore in doing so. I would assume the SHB grubs would also eat something while they're in the soil but I certainly don't know that.

    where's an entemologist when ya need one?

    Dave

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Milford, MI
    Posts
    328

    Post

    Basically Brent, the bait trap is corrugated plastic, the beetles crawl in through the flutes to get away from the bees and come in contact with the bait. The bees however, can not get in the flutes, therefore do not come in contact with the bait, which was a major concern as I would like to place these little traps on the bottom board and between the inner and outer cover.

    These work very well to deliver bait not only to the Small Hive Beetles, but to Earwigs and Ants as well. I have had great success this summer using this trap to combat the Earwigs, using a different type of bait of course. Only recently have I stumbled upon a bait that has seemed to be successful in getting rid of the SHB, but I'm still skeptical as to whether or not the bait was the key factor.

    I'm working on a deal with a few beekeeping supply houses at this time to supply them with these traps, but I'd like to get a few more of these into the hands of the people here. If anyone is interested you can send me a self addressed padded envelope and I'll provide you with a sample.

    I would assume the SHB grubs would also eat something while they're in the soil but I certainly don't know that.
    I don't know either Dave, they seem to get their fill of brood, pollen and honey while their in my hives, then burrow their fat little bloated selves into the soil. I'm not sure if they eat their way into the soil or just burrow, nor do I know what they do after that. What I do know is they have eaten my bees out of freekin' house and home. And I'm not gonna take it any more...

    I would really prefer to kill the adults before they lay any eggs in the hive, hence the bait trap. That way, the least amount of damage will occur, and I may regain my sanity.

    I have looked at ground drenches and soil dwelling nematodes, yet these methods seem to be brought into the fight after the damage is done, let alone only effective for a limited area. If only the bees knew to drop the larvae within the treated area, instead of hauling it hundreds of feet away...

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