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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Honduras
    Posts
    232

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    Rob, Where's should I look for your upcoming article?

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

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    Joel,
    I am sending the article on the Florida/California
    semi loads tomorrow and the article should be in the March issue of ABJ as space was held for the article (pictures were sent Monday).
    I needed to send one or the other article and the above was easier for me to send to fill the space the magazine was holding.
    I looked at bees all day today and will tomorrow and most likely finnish Thursday. Thinking of trucking some down on the Gulf to build up as California said they do not need these hives so I need to get an idea of condition. Problem is they need to come back in a month for apples.
    When you make a living from bees (which you know as well as I do Joel) the bees come first. These bees were headed to California so they look good but a month on the coast would make for a better split in April.
    I plan to get busy on the AHB/Florida article as soon as I decide my next move and the load which is headed for California is loaded Thursday or Friday.
    My best guess is the April issue of ABJ. The above article is important as the subject is on beekeepers minds now but the Florida/AHB article can wait a month if the magazine does not have room in March and I do not get done in time.
    I want to devote the time to the AHB article to get it right.I have a gift (I have been told) for being able to explain complicated things in a way everyday beekeepers can understand. I hope to be able to explain what is going on with AHB in Florida, the way the Florida beekeeper can handle the situation and make Florida beekeepers (and others) understand AHB will cause changes but certainly will not be the end of beekeeping.
    I have interveiwed around ten people for the article and one is an expert on AHB. I went back to ABJ magazines from 40 years ago getting AHB information. I wrote the article once ( on the way back from Florida) but tossed in the trash. Maybe I am too picky but want to get it right.
    Bob Harrison

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Post

    I rememeber about 10-15 years back that a team II a EHB queen with EHB and AHB semen to see what would become of the hive, the hive was aggressive but not like a strait AFB hive if I remember right, the one thing I do remember is that when they grafted larva to make queens, the queens with the AFB traits hatched out a full day before the queens with the EHB traits and killed the EHB queens, and these were all in standard size cells. maybe some of yall watched it, seems like the AHB's were built to take over.

    In Florida we are dealing with pure " scut" just arrived in the best guess the last ten years.
    how was this proven? and if they are pure, how are these different than the AHB in texas, arizona and california?

    [size="1"][ February 01, 2006, 03:40 AM: Message edited by: TwT ][/size]
    Ted

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    Ted,
    Complicated subject.
    The pure "scut' in most cases follows certain patterns such as running on frames, constant swarming and abscounding and aggression. Long documented facts.
    The percent of "Scut"seems to control these traits but you can certainly have a quarter "Scut" with undesirable traits and a full (100%) which is workable because of the genetics.

    Many in South America have not got a clue what exact per cent of AHB they are dealing with. if you wanted to spend a 100 times the amount of a years income from their operation to have a team of researchers come in and do dna testing then an explanation could be had. Nobody cares! I don't care. The bottom line once AHB moves into an area is you stay on top of eliminating "hot" hives. The light kick test remains the most used test in Texas.

    If you don't remove "hot" queens then slowly the percent of "hot" hives will increase for the obvious reasons talked about. Your quarter percent will rise to half and then to three quarter and then you will start seeing full (100%) "Scut" due in part mainly to the mating success of AHB drones over EU drones and inbreeding.

    A simple test (educated guess) to see what level of AHB is in your hives is to tell me what level of bad traits you are seeing.

    1.Is constant swarming a problem
    2. running on frames common
    3. abscounding common
    4. Are all hives very aggesive most of the time and some almost unworkable
    5.Do some not respond to smoke at all and even seem to be more aggressive when smoke is used
    6.Can you sit strong hives in a row and work all at a setting *most of the time* without having bees pour from the other hives.
    7. What is the usual distance bees will follow you after working.
    8. How long do the bees stay upset after working a day or a week
    9. what is the distance you encounter aggresive bees when you enter the bee yard.

    These are common questions asked by an AHB expert and he/she can then give an educated guess on degree of AHB in a given yard. However when regular requeening with gentler queens is not done *usually* the bad traits increase.

    Maybe Joao or Tomas will take the above simple test for the list about their bees. I know there are good and bad days but surely you have got a general overall idea and be honest as making the situation look better or worse than really is is of little value.
    Bob Harrison

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,436

    Post

    Bob, any predictions on what is ahead for NY, as more AHbs show up here with all of the colonies that go between NY and FL and back?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  7. #87
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Odessa, Missouri
    Posts
    629

    Post

    Mark,
    I don't think you will see a problem for awhile but could be wrong. I just hung up the phone with Jerry Hayes (head of Florida apiary inspection)on another matter and article I just finished for March ABJ.
    Jerry said CNN has been interveiwing his inspectors all day and is doing a story which will air (he thinks if a slow news day) at 7PM CST tomorrow.
    He said there had been no new stinging incidents but AHB word has spread.I hate to see the news media involved. When the load of hives overturned on I29 a few years ago and we bought the load from the insurance co. and cleaned up the mess the news media called. I said I would not comment unless I could see the segment before being aired. Yea right they answered!

    They did find a beekeeper to interveiw for thirty minutes and film going through a hive.

    The whole piece was designed to scare the public and they never aired a single word he said about why bees are important. All that was aired was a single picture of his hands and the bee hive. The rest was film of the scene ( or beekeepers cleaning up a bee spill). People were not getting stung if they rolled up their windows as they drove by. Duh!
    Bob Harrison

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,436

    Post

    Thanks Bob, say hi to Jerry for me, next time you see him. We both studied under Jim Tew. Jerry before me, and we didn't get to know each other, really.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  9. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    Thanks Bob, I'll look forward to the article in ABJ.

    Good Post all!

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Bartonville, TX USA
    Posts
    456

    Post

    Is there a progression of attitude that maps to the progression of AHB?

    1. AHB indigenous = public aware, dozer operators hyperaware, beekeepers prepared and cautious - managing problem, media not able to get away with fakery (any more than usual anyway)
    2. AHB recent arrival (most dangerous period) = public scared, dozer operators unaware, beekeepers scared, cautious and getting educated, media exploiting
    3. AHB possible and close but not arrived = public mostly unaware, beekeepers scared but not prepared, media exploiting
    4. AHB possible but not close = public unaware, beekeepers scared, media exploiting
    5. AHB not possible (too cold) = public frightened by media exploitation, beekeepers {how would you describe it?}, media selling toilet paper, beer, tampons intermingled with 'newsflash coming up - AHB may arrive in {fill in blank} city riding on {uncaring foreigners vehicles}.

    many thanks for the posts from the guys living with AHB, very informative. Also, the simple test list rings true.

    My limited experience with AHB #7 &#9 ring most true -

    7. What is the usual distance bees will follow you after working.

    And in what numbers, EHB by the singles or dozen, AHB in the hundreds

    9. What is the distance you encounter aggresive bees when you enter the bee yard.

    I find the light kick test a bit hollow for AHB. When a dozen or more instantly dive in for unprovoked stings at 30 yards before you reach the beeyard I begin to suspect AHB.

    Another less reliable but relevant item might be how many wasted stings into gloves or impenetrable clothing - in other words how many workers will the colony uselessly waste in defense.

    Crawling behavior is also markedly different and readily observable.

    I will say that being in the midst of a hot AHB hive with proper clothing is truly an unforgettable experience. Being inside a cloud of bees with thousands crawling over your suit, hundreds stinging vainly into your helmet, gloves and sleeves, your suit stained with venon and it's smell overpowering everything else and to have this cloud follow you 200 yards, some staying with you for another half hour. Well you just don't forget the experience.

    I like my italian queens a lot [img]smile.gif[/img]

    [size="1"][ February 03, 2006, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: wfarler ][/size]
    "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes"
    Henry David Thoreau, Walden

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
    Posts
    1,998

    Post

    wfarler,

    Thanks for that post. I think that all of those things have been written about on beesource before, but never stated so succinctly.

    Aspera

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Casper, WY
    Posts
    526

    Post

    Hi Guys,

    I've seen another aspect of bee behavior, with my limited AHB experience, that I've never seen with any other bee. AHB's often jump, rather than fly, from a top bar onto a hand or hivetool when it's moved over or around them.

    This behavior might easily be missed, but is quite distinctive once it's been observed.

    Have any of you real AHB beekeepers observed this?

    Regards
    Dennis

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,436

    Post

    A friend of mine, who like me, migrates to SC from NY, asked how much longer do we have before any nucs we make in SC, with queens raised there, are going to be AHb?

    If feral colonies in South Florida are coming up AHb, how long before that is true for SC?

    Then what will we do to avoid AHb? Stop off in MD or VA?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  14. #94
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    I expect next year or 2 will be our last years to safely winter in the South, maybe 2009 if we weren't right off I-95 (which we are). It won't matter since the AHB in Fl. are pure scutella and we may see the impacts quickly if the queen and package breeders inside the current line are already infected and thousands of packages and queens qet shipped this spring. We already had one hive in NY last year. I think MD would be the better choice as long as it's not near Frostburg. I'm betting the little blighters might make it in Va. with a little cross breeding.

    I think in three years we will be running our own northern queen rearing yards in, splitting hives in the late summer and wintering nucs to replace winter losses and sell in the spring. Of course our stock will become really inbred as we won't have thought of setting up some queen yards with other Beeks to give us fresh genes! There was a question about ying-yang in another thread. I can answer that here. The ying-yang is where we will probably take it as result of this next influx of bee industry problem (AHB).

    [size="1"][ February 05, 2006, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Joel ][/size]

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,436

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    Careful Joel.

    Mike Palmer and other VT beekeepers have been recommending Locally Raised Queens for quite some time. Their meeting a couple of weeks ago was on this topic. Things can be done. But if AHb adjusts to our winters, it's all but over. We will have to adapt or get out.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  16. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,785

    Post

    >Mike Palmer and other VT beekeepers have been recommending Locally Raised Queens for quite some time.

    It seems to me we should have been doing it all along, but isn't now a good time to start? Lets start rasising our own queens from stock that lives in our climate. No more queens from AHB areas and no more queens that are well adapted to the deep South but not the far North.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
    Posts
    4,072

    Post

    "I think in three years we will be running our own northern queen rearing yards in, splitting hives in the late summer and wintering nucs to replace winter losses and sell in the spring. Of course our stock will become really inbred as we won't have thought of setting up some queen yards with other Beeks to give us fresh genes!"

    Joel...lets get cracking on those queenyards, ready when you are.

    "But if AHb adjusts to our winters, it's all but over. We will have to adapt or get out."

    Mark...that remains to be seen, and the trueth of it is we just don't know if they will...time will tell.

    "It seems to me we should have been doing it all along, but isn't now a good time to start? Lets start rasising our own queens from stock that lives in our climate. No more queens from AHB areas and no more queens that are well adapted to the deep South but not the far North."

    MB...this has always been a good idea, local queens adjusted to local conditions. However, not everyone will do this, which will always bring packages and queens in from the south.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,436

    Post

    peggjam, "remains to be seen". I agree. No one knows if they will survive here for sure, until they do. And then what?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  19. #99
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fremont, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    695

    Post

    How far south did these bees migrate in South America?

    [size="1"][ February 05, 2006, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: The Honey House ][/size]

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,436

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    Someone else can give you an answer on that. What I will point out is that we have a migratory beekeeping industry that they don't have in South America. At least, not as developed.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



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