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  1. #21
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    No takers?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  2. #22
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    Mar 2005
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    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    The numbers don't add up in the regular season since NY only inspects 10% of hives. I often work a yard of 25 hives with no gloves and get no stings. Of course my bees are familiar with my smell (my wife would say stench after a couple of hours in the heat with a beesuit on)

    {Do you suppose that the Workers Compensation Lawyer is going to let the Judge award that inspector anything? Maybe the hospital costs and treatment costs}

    Completely wrong approach, if you want to make it off the government act stupid and get SSI for being learing disabled. I deal with tons of these folks every week, what a racket! I see 2 or 3 in a house taking in 800-1100 each a month. Heck they'd probably by you bees for therapy. It's what John refered to as entitlement!

    {

  3. #23
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    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
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    Mark,

    I believe if I had a job that required getting stung by bee's 200+ times in a day I'd quit [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Dave

  4. #24
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Hi Joel, 10%? No, I think that you must be mixed up between what is inspected to issue an interstate transport permit and regular inspections.

    THe number of colonys inspected this year was over 20,000. I don't have the number of yards inspected in my head. But 20,000 plus colonies was what was reported at the ESHPA meeting.

    Well, maybe I'm clumsy, because it seems like i can't work a hive without getting stung, at least once or twice. So, maybe my numbers were high, on average. But the question is still real.

    But mostly the last one.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  5. #25
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    Mar 2005
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    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    (No, I think that you must be mixed up between what is inspected)

    I'm not even a little confused, #1 inspector this year told me he knew nothing about interstate inspections and referred me to #2 who could not inspect me who refereed me #3 (now that's confusing), well at any rate, #1 who's never ( and still hasn't) conducted a migratory inspection said they only inspect 10% of any hives,. Possibly someone should see if #1 us confused. Now I don't doubt what you say is accurate, please be assured it's not me that's confused!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Athens, Ill
    Posts
    141

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    Fordguy asked a question about breeding down the AHb into gentiler bees. I had wondered the same thing. Do we know how mean the ancesters of our bees were when man first started working with them?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
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    BEW,

    Its thought that the African bees became much more aggressive over the last 30 to 40 thousand years as a result of depredations by human beings. Add in the impact of honey badgers and various birds that love to dine on honeybees and you wind up with survival of the most vicious bees on earth.

    There have been several programs to breed a gentler Scutellata. Most failed because there are just too many linked traits such as absconding, queen mauling, and swarming.

    Fusion

  8. #28
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Joel, I understand now what you are refering to, I believe. And I think that you may be refering to someone who is not coming back next season.

    If you had an interaction, of some sort, with the person who I think you are refering to, I feel for you.

    You and all beekeepers of New York deserve better "service" then that, IMO.

    Policies in reference to procedures, such as number of colonies to inspect in a yard, are not written in stone. That is being worked on.

    The policy has been, for some time now, that if you go to a yard, you inspect all of the colonies in that yard.

    This makes sense on different levels. We used to do a percentage until we had a case in which I inspected a yard of 20 or 24 colonies and missed the AFB that the beekeeper knew was there.

    Boy was that embarassing. It's even embarassing saying it here.

    So, my personal policy changed and the general overall policy changed.

    It also doesn't make sense to drive all that distance and only do partial inspections. Not very efficient use of inspectors time and travel expenses. We need a better hive per mile ratio of production.

    I hope that clears things up, some what. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I've told you about more effective squeaking techniques, right? And you know that if you don't get the service you want at the quality you deserve, you can call me.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  9. #29
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    Dec 2005
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    Fusion, I don't know what you know but, 30 or 40 thousand years of "depridations by human beings"? I had to look up that word, depredation, to find it's meaning.

    For the vocabulary empaired like me, my dictionary says,"a preying upon or plundering; robbery; ravage."

    What about other critters who we have preyed on over the span of man's existence? Have they become more fiercely defendant or aggresive?

    To Wolf's question, I remembered reading or hearing that Mexico had,and may still have, more colonies per square mile than anywhere else in the Americas.

    The hope was that the AHbs aggressive tendencies would be diluted when they encountered this density of EHb hives.

    I don't think that the outcome hoped for came to fruition. But, maybe it did, partially. I don't know. There are folks more knowlegable and more experienced than I, that's for sure. They should be answering your question.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    It seems to me that only two approaches have been used with AHB. Attempts to eradicate them by killing all the ferals, leaving a vacuum for the AHB to fill or simply accepting them and not trying to water them down. People keep trying to keep their stock pure EHB which is failing I haven't seen anywhere that is actually taking the approach of trying to water down the AHB with EHB genetics. I can't say it will work. Only that I don't see where it's actually been tried.

    If you simply keep breeding from calmest and best ferals around, killing only the mean ferals that are around, while bringing in EHB stock to try to keep "watering" it down maybe you will succeed at a bee that will be workable and survive.

    [size="1"][ January 21, 2006, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Michael Bush ][/size]
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  11. #31
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Raleigh, North Carolina
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    In another thread someone mentioned a documentary on AHB on Discovery channel last night
    I watched some of it and they made reference to such a program in Mexico
    I believe they said they got bees that are good producers and 1/3 less aggresive
    not much detail, you'd think a documentary on AHB would kinda focus on that wouldn't you??
    I guess they were to busy showing pics of the little old lady who got 400 stings

    Dave

  12. #32
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    NY State Apiary Inspection to loose about half of it's workforce, due to Ethics Committee Ruling.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  13. #33
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >AFB that the beekeeper knew was there

    So what you're saying is the beekeeper was purposely trying to have AFB in his yard and hide this from you?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #34
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    No, but I was not notified that it was there before I did my inspection. I don't believe that anyone was trying to have AFB in their yard.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  15. #35
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    But if he knew it was there wouldn't he remove it, rather than hide it?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  16. #36
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    Dec 2005
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    It wasn't hidden. I had talked to him about doing some inspections on his yards. He didn't say anything about the AFB colonies.

    I don't know his reasons for it still being there when I did the inspection. I don't remember if I knew the reasons why he still had it there. It was taken care of in a timely fashion, after I re-did my inspection and took samples for lab analysis. The beekeeper and I were in agreement as to it's being AFB, so he didn't wait for any further lab confirmation or instruction from Albany.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  17. #37
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    Michael, How would you suggest trying to water down the AHb caracteristics with EHb?

    I saw what you wrote above. But what would the details of such a program be?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  18. #38
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >Michael, How would you suggest trying to water down the AHb caracteristics with EHb?

    I haven't tried to come up with a plan. It just occurs to me that what has been tried will never accomplish it. If you keep killing anything with AHB genes in it then you'll be constantly killing the only link you have to get there. Contantly killing all the feral bees seems like a bad plan all the way around and it's what is usually done as a reactionary plan.

    Besides, if I came up with a plan, what's the likelyhood anyone would be interested in implementing it?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #39
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    Perhaps no one would. But you could do it yourself, perhaps.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  20. #40
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    <Besides, if I came up with a plan, what's the likelyhood anyone would be interested in implementing it?>

    How painfully true.

    I have a question though. Has anyone observed an AHB swarm depart it's home hive? If so, do they cluster like EHB's do, or do they already know where they are going. How could you tell a clustered swarm was AHB. I assume that they gorge on honey and hence can't sting as well until they have disgorged the honey at their new home, so how would you know wether it was AHB?
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

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