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Thread: Building frames

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    82

    Question

    When building frames for the supers, is it okay to use wood glue in addition to the nails? I have seen a lot of the frames split where the nail went in, and I thought some glue might help keep them longer. How long do frames last if they are not left out in the rain or anything?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Arnold, MD USA
    Posts
    48

    Post

    I use an 18 guage pneumatic nail gun to assemble frames. The frames almost never split. I also use wood glue to help hold the frames together.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Porter, Ok USA
    Posts
    491

    Post

    I am strictly an amateur, but I never build frames without glueing them. I use carpenters waterproof wood glue--there is more than one brand, but make sure it it wood glue and waterproof. I looked at some gorilla glue today, but it looks a bit pricey for frames.

    When you think about it, using care to assemble frames is good practice. They will last practically forever if you do not let them get eaten by wax moth larvae. They are tedious to build, and you do not want to have to do it over or have them come apart when being handled.
    Ox

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fremont, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    695

    Post

    If you soak the end bars in water for about fifteen minutes before assemble you won't get as many splits.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Heavener OK.
    Posts
    22

    Post

    Hi MOPOSCAR
    I usally stand the frame on its end and put a slim frame nail through end bar (1 1/4)Nail from the bee supplie cataloge into the top bar this also helps a lot after they get a few years old they get stuck down a lot more by the bees. this helps them from coming apart when taking them out.

    Velbert

  6. #6

    Post

    Exterior rated glue!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY, USA
    Posts
    133

    Post

    I use tite-bond II to glue my frames. Its waterproof and its approved for food contact.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    Tight bond is good, but Gorilla is great! As mentioned the key is to soak the ends before assembly to keep them from cracking and useing ten nails for a strong end result. Be sure to only use a tiny dap of Gorilla glue as it really expands and you will get a lot of foaming seeping out the joints. If you are as anal as I am about building things right, a jig will keep them straight and plumb.

    I take way too much time and effort making frames, that is why I hate to do it. Permacomb is the answer for me. Still I like to experiment with things like foundationless frames, and extra deeps.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bridgewater VT. USA
    Posts
    238

    Post

    HI all
    I use an air brad nailer and elmers version of gorila glue (cheaper) it needs moisture to cure so soaking the end bars helps with spliting and helps the glue just wipe off excess water and go to it. use very little glue as it foams and fills gaps very messy if you use it like regular glue.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    82

    Post

    Thanks for all the great replies everyone!! I never thought about soaking them in water...I will make sure I do that.

    I had started using glue on about 5 of them, and then I got worried that it might be harmful or something, so the next 5 I didn't use it. I will make sure I use it on the next ones I do...along with soaking them.

    All my frames I have were old ones handed down to me, and this is my first time building them. It takes me a long time b/c I am a perfectionist and want them to last. I do have a jig set up to make sure they are square.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    North Alabama, SW Kentucky
    Posts
    1,914

    Post

    Great question!!!
    I was going to glue mine also, but found that I really needed to soak them to prevent the splitting. This led me to think that the glue wouldn't bond to the wet wood.

    Will it?
    WayaCoyote

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >Will it?

    Yes. Both Gorilla glue and Tight bond.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Auburn, AL USA
    Posts
    104

    Post

    An old carpenter's trick is to turn the nail over and tap it once dulling the end. The reason the wood splits is the sharp nail goes between the wood fibers splitting them apart. A dull nail punches through wood fibers avoiding the split, like the cut nails of old.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    82

    Post

    You learn something new every day!!
    Thanks for the tip Will.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    That works and another one is to rub the nail on wax or a bar of soap.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,336

    Post

    True, wax works. I have a hole drilled in the handle of all my hammers filled with parafin. A candle works well to fill it. But on a frame the waxed nail will pull out easier. This isn't a problem on nails that are in the "shear" position (meaning the weight of gravity is pulling in such a way that it is pulling at right angles to the direction the nail is in) but isn't very good for nails in the "pull" position (where gravity is trying to pull the same direction as the nail) as the bottom bars often are. The soap would probably be better because it might not STAY as slippery as the wax.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Lyndon, KS
    Posts
    357

    Post

    Why use papprin when Beeswax is better. My grandpa always had a chunck of beeswax with him when ever he did building and he ran the point of the nail into it and he stated it always went in better. So replace that paffrin with beeswax.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,336

    Post

    I have used both, but parafin is cheaper and works just as well. I use a candle to drip it into the hole usually, although my wax tube fastener would work just as well when I'm putting foundation in.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    North Alabama, SW Kentucky
    Posts
    1,914

    Post

    I built the frame jig from teh "build it" section of this site. It helped a lot. Using staples in the endbars in place of eyelets I think will help strengthen splits. I agree that quality in work in the beginning will produce long-lasting equipment. Some of my top bars came with splits in them already. I patched these up with some dowels drilled in across the grain and some glue. I don't suspect I will ever have a problem from those.

    WayaCoyote

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