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Minimum Number of bees

5K views 15 replies 6 participants last post by  Terri 
#1 ·
I would like to make an small hive, an observation hive or something similar.

I not really going to take some honey from the hive maybe just a frame a small jar or so.

they are mainly going to be "pets" for a general interest in bees.

What would the minimumn number of bees be to sustain the colony.

is keeping a smaller number of bees more work due to more due to more care required.

how could you stop over crowding without expanding the hive size.

any thoughts would be great
chiefman
 
#2 ·
You have to decide if you want the minimum number for a hive that will overwinter or just make it through the rest of the year. It's difficult to maintain an observation hive without a real hive, but if you had a four medium frame or a three deep frame hive and you just let them swarm when they get too crowded they might make it through the winter ok if you feed them now and then.

If you had another hive, then you can pull out frames of brood etc. and give them to your other hive to cut down on crowding. One way of doing this is cut a 3/4" piece of plywood the size of a Lanstroth box and then build a little one or two frame nuc and cut a hole in the plywood the size of the inside of the nuc. Now you can put a sheet of newspaper over the hole and the nuc over that and combine them whenever the observation hive is too full. After they are used to each other you can swap those frames with some honey in the other hive and you're done.

If you don't care about overwintering, then even a one frame observation hive will work to get through the rest of the year. Maybe if you feed them, they MIGHT have a handful of bees left in the spring to get started again, but it's doubtful.

They WILL get overcrowded, it's just a question of if you have a hive to put the full frames in or you just let them swarm.
 
#3 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>They WILL get overcrowded, it's just a question of if you have a hive to put the full frames in or you just let them swarm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will the swamming result in a loss of the whole colony. Or will some of the stay back ie split. a reduction in the colony is not a problems as honey production is not that important. as long as the whole colony does not disapear.

I was thinking of a 4 full sized frame hive.
would you need to super this



[This message has been edited by chiefman (edited May 30, 2003).]
 
#4 ·
If you keep a four frame observation hive and no other hive, then when the bees get too crowded they will swarm. Generally speaking they will leave enough bees behind to take care of the brood and raise a new queen and continue. However, swarming is not an exact science and sometimes the bees mess up and too many leave for them to survive well. Especially if they swarm late in the fall. I hadn't had any swarm late in the fall until last year, but they can and do swarm late sometimes.

If you have another hive, you can work it both ways. You can take bees out before they swarm or put frames back in if too many swarm.

If you really want some bees in an observation hive and can't have another hive, I'd go for it. It may put in in situations that you can't do a lot more than feed them to try to help, but you'll still get a wonderful education.

If you can, though, I'd recommend at least one outside hive so you can steal bees out of the observation hive to keep it from getting so crowded. Plus if the bees get themselves in a jam, like a failing queen and no brood to raise a new one, you can steal some eggs from the outside hive to bail them out. Also you can do things like steal some honey from the outside one to stock up the observation hive for winter. If you do that after all the brood rearing stops, then you could have four frames of honey going into winter. Of course if it's inside and you have a feeder of some kind that can be filled without opening it, you can feed them all winter anyway.

If you want an ouside hive but want to start with the observation hive, when it gets full, you can take three frames out of the four and the queen and start a nuc outside (a 5 frame box) and leave one frame with eggs in the observation hive and watch them raise a new queen. Also, if you use just starter strips in the observation hive it will slow them down some because they have to draw more comb and you get to see natural comb being drawn. Also you can steal a lot of their honey and make them work harder in the observation hive to try to slow them down. Just don't steal all of it or a three day rain will kill a lot of brood because they can't feed them. All in all, though, the bees will probably succeed way beyond the size of the facilities in spite of all of your attempts to slow them down.
 
#5 ·
I didn't asnwer your "super" question. Four full size frames is a nice sized observation hive. You will have to take it outside to steal honey regardless of a super or not and you can steal honey from a four frame hive from time to time and you will need to from time to time as it gets too crowded. Of course having a honey bound brood nest might be a good thing to slow them down too.


Most of the observation hives available here in the US don't have a super, they are all one piece.
 
#6 ·
Wasn't sure if you had other hives at your disposal. If you have another hive to swap frames and to combine at the end of the year, thats great. Alot could be learned and different manipulations achieved.

If all your doing is a observation hive, and no other beekeeping, than do yourself a favor. Don't do it. For one, your going against the nature of bees and what they work for. Collecting maximum honey stores, perpetuating thier species by swarming, and surviving for another year. I have no problems squishing a bee here and there, but I do consider them pets on some level and take pride doing whats best for them.

Its like the person who wants a dog. Then they put them on a chain in the backyard. Years later the dog has a rut in the dirt from going in circles all day long. Observation hive is the same if no other hive support is available.
Of course you can do whats best for you. Thats just my opinion.
 
#7 ·
I have seen swarms that settled in places as small as a four frame observation hive and didn't have nearly as nice of an atmosphere in the winter and didn't have a nice human to feed them when they ran short and they did ok, so while I agree it's best to have a real hive, it's not impossible to run one this way. Unfortunatley the hive could get into trouble with a queen failing or a swarm late in the season and there are no resources to use to help them.
 
#8 ·
I say go for it with a 2 or 3 pound package. I would almost guarantee that after watching them a while you will be wanting an outside hive. I started a few years ago with 2 hives. I decided then to have no more than 10 hives ever. Ok now I have 11 and just ordered 10 new brood boxes. Guess I have been bit by the bug. Oh yeah I don't even try to decide what number to cut off now.
 
#9 ·
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Also, if you use just starter strips in the observation hive it will slow them down some because they have to draw more comb and you get to see natural comb being drawn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry about this what are "starter strips" and
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I say go for it with a 2 or 3 pound package.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is a package i assume they are a number of bees how much is a 2 or 3 pound package
 
#10 ·
>Sorry about this what are "starter strips"

If you cut a narrow strip of foundation (say 1/2" to 1") and put it in the cleat on the top bar of the frame and leave the rest open this is a starter strip. It gets the bees to build the comb in the middle of the frame but lets them build it themselves instead of having a full sheet of foundation to build on. It makes them work more, but you need to slow them down a bit or they will really boom in no time.

>What exactly is a package i assume they are a number of bees how much is a 2 or 3 pound package

I'm not sure how things work where you are, but here in the US they sell package bees through the mail. A package comes in 2, 3 or 4 pounds usually, but Walter Kelly sells some smaller just for observation hives. You really only need 1/2 pound, but I've started them with 3 pounds. It's just that in a month and a half they are ready to swarm. How do you obtain bees there? Some places you buy nucs or bees. If you are buying bees by the frame, one frame of bees and a queen will do to start a observation hive.
 
#11 ·
I have just read a chapter in a book.

"Keeping bees in Australia"

I basically says that buying packaged bees here is not very popular as they need to be bread early in the season around August. its too cold in NSW and Vic and must be shipped from QLD

Most beekeppers here buy a nuc.

Just further to the Observation hive i thought an OB hive was similar to a nuc with glass pannels. it would opperate outside just a smaller hive. I'd rather keep them outside and let them live "naturally"

Thanks for you input so far, you all really gave me some great pointers
 
#12 ·
Observation hives are easier to do inside. If you don't cover the glass outside, it turns into a solar wax melter and the bees all die. When it's cold it difficult for the bees to keep the brood warm outside. If you want a small hive outside to watch, I'd build a little five frame nuc with a plexiglass wall and use the starter strips. That way you can watch them build natural comb. And they have five frames so they can keep the brood warm in the middle. Unfortunately you still have to open it to see the queen or brood because that will always be in the middle where they can keep it warm.
 
#13 ·
Sometime back, there was a link here to a very rustic looking outside observation hive on this site.

It was made out of a cut away hollow log with a plexiglas front and a hinged door in front. Very clever design. I believe it had starter strips or it was free formed.

I would think if you could get the comb drawn perpendicular to the plexiglass you could have a good view.

Sorry I don't have time to search for it right now.

Bill
 
#14 ·
#16 ·
There is a plexiglass observation hive in a local park that is entirely inside the ranger station. They used a hollow plastic tube that ran to the outside so the bees could come and go as they wished. The only drawback that I saw was that dead bees tended to accumulate in the tubing, as the undertaker bees just took the dead bees out of the hive, not out of the tubing.
 
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