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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Springfield New Jersey
    Posts
    119

    Question

    I have not fed my bees at all this fall except for some granulated sugar spread over the top cover. I check the hive earlier this month and the two deeps were fully loaded end to end with honey pollen etc. should I have feed a 2:1 suger syrup mix or would this be unnecesary?

  2. #2
    BILLY BOB Guest

    Post

    Hey Xen,

    Sounds like you have plenty of stores for the winter.

    When you say "deeps", do you mean the 9" deep/hive body, or the 6" deep super.

    ------------------
    BB

    The first step in house breaking a dog, is letting the dog in the house.

  3. #3
    BILLY BOB Guest

    Post

    Hey Xen,

    Sounds like you have plenty of stores for the winter.

    When you say "deeps", do you mean the 9" deep/hive body, or the 6" deep super.

    ------------------
    BB

    The first step in house breaking a dog, is letting the dog in the house.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    B BOB
    Generally the 6" is called a medium, the 9" a deep, and the 5" a shallow. They are all interchangeable for brood or supers.

    Bill

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,570

    Post

    >Generally the 6" is called a medium, the 9" a deep, and the 5" a shallow. They are all interchangeable for brood or supers.

    Common box dimensions and names:

    9 5/8" = deep
    6 5/8" = medium (or Illinois or Western)
    5 11/16" = shallow

    Less common:

    11 5/8 = Dadant Deep or Extra Deep
    4 3/4" = Extra Shallow (Walter Kelly Sells these)
    7 5/8" = ? (Western Bee supply sells these)

    If you have two deep bodies full of honey I would not bother feeding. Feeding is really only used to make sure there are enough stores. Feeding is likely to cause robbing and other problems so if you don't need to, don't.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,499

    Post

    Not sure how cold it gets inSpringfield New Jersey, but I assume it is not as cold and harsh as it gets here. I winter in two deeps, weighing about 160lbs or so, so I think you have more than enough food in reserve.
    After a few years of wintering you will get an idea on how much feed your colonies will need. Too much will honey bound your hive in the spring, preventing the colony from quickly expanding its brood nest,too little and yor colony will starve late winter. Once you find your happy meduim, you will run a more efficient opperation.
    Don't be afraid to feed your hives if they are low in store. If done right there will be no robbing, little if any. I don't know why everyone here is afraid to feed. I have not had any problems, ever with robbing during feeding, I must be doing something right. Bettter to feed up your hives, than go into winter with light ones.

    Ian

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,570

    Post

    I never hesitate to feed if I think they need it. But the problems involved are not worth it if they don't need it. I always prefer to leave them enough stores instead of trying to make it up by feeding. But sometimes you need to top off some hives that have been split or make up for a lack of late flow.

    I often have robbing problems when feeding. I often don't have robbing problemns when feeding. I don't see a pattern as to when and why, but I have no doubt that the nectar supply and the season of the year are related to it.

    I would also say that bacteria (such as EFB and AFB) are very pH sensitive (not the AFB spores, just the active bacteria) and the Varroa and Tracheal Mites seem to also be at least a bit pH sensitive. The pH of syrup is more alkline than honey. How much of our problems with our bees is due to this difference? I'd like to see some studies on how this affects all of the above mentioned problems, but it's unlikely anyone will challenge the long held belief that sugar syrup is better than honey because it won't spread AFB spores and because it's cheaper than honey.

    Don't get me wrong. I think starving is worse yet, so I feed sugar syrup when the stores are light and partly because honey is more likely to set off robbing, but why not leave them enough honey to start with?


    [This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited November 19, 2003).]

  8. #8
    BILLY BOB Guest

    Post

    Thanks guys,

    I was asking to see if xen know the different sizes.

    BB

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,081

    Post

    Is there any chance the bees can tell the difference between sugar/water (simulating a nectar flow) and feeding honey (simulating a hive being robbed)?

    I set supers out after extracting and the feeding frenzy is entirely different than that of sugar water. Both being away from the hives. Maybe the approach of honey feeding effects them differently and automatically they think hives should be attacked/tested for weakness????

    I wrote this without "seeing" MB last paragraph....

    [This message has been edited by BjornBee (edited November 19, 2003).]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    43,570

    Post

    I agree with your observation. I've seen a lot of fighting and dead bees from putting honey in the open that I don't see with sugar syrup.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Springfield New Jersey
    Posts
    119

    Smile

    yes I know the different sizes
    I have two deep 9 5/8 boxes. the supers (shallow honey) have been removed. I know some people use 3/4 boxes I think they call these Texas boxes?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,570

    Post

    >I have two deep 9 5/8 boxes. the supers (shallow honey) have been removed. I know some people use 3/4 boxes I think they call these Texas boxes?

    I have heard 3/4 used for the 6 5/8" boxes. I haven't heard Texas, but I have heard Western and Illinois for them. I think Medium is the least confusing name. But now that I've adopted them as my standard, I think I'll just call them Nebraska supers.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,499

    Post

    >>I would also say that bacteria (such as EFB and AFB) are very pH sensitive (not the AFB spores, just the active bacteria) and the Varroa and Tracheal Mites seem to also be at least a bit pH sensitive. The pH of syrup is more alkline than honey. How much of our problems with our bees is due to this difference? I'd like to see some studies on how this affects all of the above mentioned problems,

    I would be interested in seeing the conclusions of a study between surip and honey used for winter feed. I think it would be hard to draw conclusions because of all the different factors involved. Would need to be at least a 5 year studdy.

    >>the long held belief that sugar syrup is better than honey because it won't spread AFB spores and because it's cheaper than honey.

    Statement of the ovious. Also doesn't harden like some of the honeys (though I find no problem with crystalized honey as feed). Also allows to feed medication throughout the winter if needed.
    Take out your calculator and add up the savings in feeding surip. And for the beekeepers who leave that third,........
    Ian

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,570

    Post

    But if taking the honey and feeding syrup contributes to all of our problems then how much does it save?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,499

    Post

    >>But if taking

    You are talking hypothetical. I have never heard, before this post, that surip used for winter feed help cause our AFB, EFB, vorroa, and treacheal mite problems. Actually, it sounds rediculous to me.
    I never,rairly, take honey from the brood chambers for fear of contanimation problems. An wise old beekeeper once said, whats put in the chambers, stays in the brood chambers.
    But by the end of the fall flow, the hives need some topping up. I feed them up to 160lbs or so. I never leave thirds on for winter feed to avoid feeding. And I always leave on supers till I feel most of the honey is collected. If you are in the business to make money, you cant waste your resources as sutch.

    Ian

    [This message has been edited by Ian (edited November 20, 2003).]

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