Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    OLD HICKORY TN USA
    Posts
    44

    Question

    I put menthol packets on my hive last week and today they were almost gone. We have had 75 degree days here. Do I need to put more on? How long should a packet last?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    According to the directions I got in mine it says to use it for over wintering.

    I'm assuming it goes on at the absolute end of the fall season.

    I haven't used mine yet but I know menthol expends faster in warmer temps.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    831

    Post

    I have no idea whether menthol kill the mites or not. I asked some guys from a beekeeping institute and the answer was that I should use Thymol crystals to kill mites; it would work even in closed cells.
    They tested approx 150 different odorous substances and find out that only Thymol is worth to use as a treatment.
    I have a tray in one of my hives for a test and that stuff works great. At the beginning 4 weeks ago the mite drop was more than 150 the day and from the last week till now a found only 3 mites.
    There enough crystals left in the tray for the next 4 or 6 weeks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,316

    Post

    Some people here use Menthol to treat for Tracheal mites.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kiel WI, USA
    Posts
    2,368

    Question

    I have a related question, when using menthol for tracheal mites, what's the goal? Is it to kill the mites, and allow the formerly infested bees to overwinter more successfully, or does it need to be done early enough to allow a new generation to hatch without being infested?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    831

    Post

    I wonder why some people working so complicated? Thymol kills both, Varroa and Tracheal mites.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    Greetings twlankford,

    I placed ONE packet on my hive 9/16. As of 10/14, approx a dozen (small pea-size) crystals remained. There has been 4 days 80* F or warmer, 11 days in the 70s, 10 days 69 or lower. My hive only gets full sun in early AM and about 30 min around 5 PM.

    Here's some good info: http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000120.html


    Daisy: Where did you get your menthol?
    I know that OVERWINTERING bees should be treated, but have not seen insrtuction that say to apply OVER WINTER. When using menthol, the temperature outside hive should be at least 65* F.

    thanx,
    Dave W

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kiel WI, USA
    Posts
    2,368

    Post

    Thymol kills tracheal mites?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    Dave W, this came from glorybee.com and the report was created according to the studies done by Herbert Shimanuki and Matthenius jr

    Approx 2 ounces of crystals in bags are placed over hive frames to overwinter and more is added in May. metal tops increased the effects of menthol.

    After second treatment in May, of eight test hives, none had TM.

    You can get crystals in bulk, package them yourself for a lot less money. Beeman uses teabags, These can be bought at a health food store, that i know of.

    I don't think a small bag will hold two ounces of crystals, but the larger family (gallon sized)) bags might get closer to the two ounce sizes.

    My bees don't have it that I know of so I don't know if I'll be using menthol crystals. I haven't decided yet. It does get in the wax. But I haven't noticed it in the honey yet. They say it dissipates over time......

    Maybe you could call glorybee or email them and ask for the report.....


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    axtman, I'm using the thyme in my hives.

    So far so good.

    If they are healthy enough for the spring flows, that's what I'm hoping for...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Catonsville, MD. USA
    Posts
    251

    Cool

    My understanding is that menthol is used and research has shown that it will kill tracheal if administered properly. The menthol should be applied when the temperature is >80 degrees F. and should be placed between the brood chambers for 3 weeks. The The reason they are sold in the 50 gram packets is that this is the ideal size for effective treatment. I'm parroting readings and research here. Personally, I have found the the bees HATE the menthol. They will usually abandon sections of comb and brood around the menthol. The queen will not lay there. I try to get menthol on in early August so that the temps are warm enough for the menthol to sublime and to leave time afterward for the queen to pick up the egg laying rate again for required number of overwintering bee-bodies.
    Thanx.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    Dave W, I made a mistake on where I got my menthol crystals and the report.

    I got it at Brushy Mountian Bee.

    Sorry about that.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Question

    Greetings . . .

    John Seets:

    "Menthol placed on the top bars (of TOP super-DW) is the preferred method of treatment provided the daytime temperature does not exceed 80*F. During hot weather, the menthol should be placed on the bottom board." Source: Hive & Honey Bee, 1992, p1118

    Can you give us your source for placing menthol BETWEEN supers?

    Yes, during warm weather, I would expect the bees to repel from the hive. I placed my menthol during a time when temps were on the low side, and have had no problem w/ repelling.


    Daisy:

    I have an E-mail from Glorybee that has nothing about using menthol OVER WINTER.

    Ill try BrushyMt, see what they say.


    thanx,
    Dave W

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Lyme, NH, USA
    Posts
    165

    Post

    I just followed the instuctions in "Beekeeping for Dummies", and soaked paper towels in a menthol-canola oil mixture. I placed one towel in each hive. The information in this "Dummie" bok is ususally quite reliable. The author also suggests replacing the towels several times during the winter, but it maybe too cold here to do that.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    Dave it's called mite a thol

    and the package reads

    for use in over wintering hone bee hive for the control of tracheal mite.

    The report which came separate mentioned an approx 2 ounce weight.

    This prepackaged amount however is 1.8 ounce or 50 gram pack.

    I hope this helps.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Post

    margot:

    "Menthol Crystals, in a packet" are also discussed in Beekeeping for Dummies (BFD) on page 185. Application of menthol crystals must be done within a certain temperature range. Within that temperature range, the menthol evaporates and is inhaled by the bees, killing the mites in the bees' trachea.

    "Menthol & Oil Saturated Paper Towels" (see BFD, p185) can be placed in hive anytime, except when honey for human consumption is on hive. During winter (any time temperature is cold), the menthol will NOT evaporate. But, as the bees chew-up the paper towel, the bees are exposed to two elements, menthol AND oil, both are effective in controling T-mites. Towel must be replaced every two weeks DURING THE WINTER, per BFD, p186. I am like you, I dont think I want to open my hive during winter and I dont believe bees will leave there cluster to chew anything (except honey), if so, what good are the towel. So I used the "packet of crystals" method. Also, I have been using Grease Patties since spring. "Grease Patties are your number-one defense against tracheal mites" - BFD, p186.


    Daisy:

    I have a packet of Mite-A-Thol. The small instruction sheet (4"x5") supplied w/ packet, across the top (3rd line down), says "For use in OVER WINTERING honey beehives for (4th line) the control of tracheal mites".

    The word "over-wintering" here means; not newly established, packages, or nucs. A hive that is being prepared for winter.

    On the back of the instr sheet, it says "treat...when daytime temps are expected to reach at least 60 degrees F". That doesnt sound like MY "winter".

  17. #17

    Post

    for those who like to keep it natural as I do I buy in bulk 1lb tubs at at bout 17.00 per tub and I personaly don't like useing too much I use 1 teaspoon in a tea bag per hive on top bars,and find it is more then needed=no mites.
    I do this as a percauction method=cost per hive is less then 25 cents if you bag it yourself.
    Don

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Lyme, NH, USA
    Posts
    165

    Post

    Dave-
    Thanks for your comments. I'm using the towels as a very unverifiable preventive measure. Daytime temps are sometime still high enough for bees to fly, so I'm hoping they will be able to consume some of the towels, and that I may have a day when I can safely open the hives to check on consumption and to replace the towels. I'm also hoping the oil may help with varroa prevention. This is "trial and error" beekeeping!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    Margot

    I am using a method similar to yours.

    I figure there are times when the temps go up in the hive making it affective. If your towels are not in there at all, it dang sure can't help.

    I've decided to keep my oily stuff in their for the winter. It has the thyme oil on it. And I use oils rather then crisco.

    They take out oils in the pattie then it turns to a sugar cake and this gets consumed more slowly.

    My observation.


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Catonsville, MD. USA
    Posts
    251

    Cool

    Dave W: ref 10/16 post; question to me:
    "Can you give us your source for placing menthol BETWEEN supers?"

    I got that info from George Imirie's Pink Pages. He's a well renouned beekeeper in the community and has consorted with many researchers over the years. Here is what he had to say about menthol and its use and reference in the H&HB: Note: Bracketed notes are mine, not George's.

    Menthol: First, I am a SCIENTIST, and I pay zero attention to anything said by non-scientists. The 1992 Hive and Honey Bee is one of the really GREAT books about bees ever written, and every contributing author is a scientist of some sort. However, it was published in 1992 and most of the writing was done in 89-90, just 5-6 years after acarapis woodi was found in the U.S. This was BEFORE I suffered any strokes and I was VERY ACTIVE in talking with scientists all over the U.S.

    There was a great fear among beekeepers that the close presence of bees to menthol would "drive them out of the hive' even chilling the brood, so no one could agree on where to put menthol in a hive, or at what outside temperatures. I spent many hours talking to SHIM [Dr.Hachiro Shiminuki who ran the Beltsville Bee Desease Labs for many years] and NICK CALDERONE back in the 80s about this, and Bill Wilson. Patty Elsen, and Diana Sammataro. ALL of them were
    SCIENTIFICALLY investigating this, but no final conclusion had been made when Shim
    and Dave Knox [also of the Beltsville Bee Disease Labs] wrote the disease chapter in the H & HB.

    Tracheal mites "clog up" the "lungs" of a bee, just as emphysema clogs the human lungs so the patient "strangles" to death and just can't breathe. AWFUL WAY TO DIE!

    Menthol KILLS the tracheal mite, but that adult bee has to breath menthol fumes into its lungs to kill the mite. By the way, tracheal mites are NOT found in bee BROOD or emerging bees. Menthol sublimes at 84.5°F (goes from solid to gas without becoming a liquid). Hence, it is rather elementary that the menthol MUST be used in HOT weather to be effective.

    Just the smell of menthol crystals sitting in a hive do not kill mites; but menthol "gas" does. How many hours during a three week exposure period is the temperature above 84.5°F after the first of September? Not many, so menthol has to be used in central Maryland about August 15th if it is to work at all. What good is menthol up on top bars of frames next to the inner cover, when the bees will just retreat to the bottom box; or vice-versa by putting menthol on the bottom board and the bees retreat to the upper body?

    Hell, if you have a boil on your elbow, you
    don't put that stinking boil medicine on your hand or on your shoulder - you put in on the boil at the elbow. Hence, you put menthol in between the two bodies on top of the bottom body frames ON AUGUST 15th in Central Maryland to effectively kill Acarapis woodi. I have been doing this every year since 1987 when I had 135 colonies, and I have NEVER lost a colony to tracheal mites; and I did it based on SCIENTIFIC reasoning.

    I have heard people complain that they saw bees leave the hive interior and come out and sit outside on the face of the hive. SO WHAT! They go back in when the temperature goes down, but meanwhile the menthol has KILLED mites. People who defy this are not only non-scientists, but heavily exhibit ANTHROPOMORPHISM, and bees are NOT humans.

    I hope I have helped!


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads