survivor stock

[MountainCamp]

There is a lot of talk about “survivor stock” and them being the future of bee keeping.
This being the case what is the definition of “survivor stock”?

How many seasons must a colony survive, to be considered survivor stock”?

Can any treatments be used on the hive?

Your thoughts

[Michael Bush]

I wouldn't consider them survivors if they are getting any kind of treatment. Certainly no one has defined what the length of survival without treatments is before they are survivors.

When I find the really small ferals, from my observations with regressing, I figure it takes a swarm from a swarm from a swarm to get that small, so they probaly have survived four years by the time I've found them. But some of mine have survived four years now, SINCE I found them.

[Joel]

{I wouldn't consider them survivors if they are getting any kind of treatment}

Agreed! We need to define treatment.

{When I find the really small ferals, from my observations with regressing}

Agreed although we need more than just a relative size for a standard. MB what happens when a regrssed small cell hive hive that is treated swarms and it's captured. Is there a method to classify that as feral or survivor? IMO no.

I think anything (untreated) that suvives is survivor stock. I would suggest we have them based on known years ie 1 year- srvs-1 / 2 yrs. ssrvs-2 etc.

A swarm is more likely to captured from a kept hive than a wild swarm in most areas so I do not think they can be classified as feral or survivor stock unless the source is confirmed.

[JBJ]

The queens I graft from tend to be in there second year with no treatments and have met other important criteria aside from survival. Further, these “survivor queens” all tend to be derived from ancestral survivors since 2000 and earlier. My humble opinion is that queens that have an 18 to 24 month history of maintaining their fecundity with no treatments and were derived from ancestrally similar stocks with a survival track record meet the definition of “survivor stock”. As to weather all these queen’s daughters will show these traits is a whole topic of its own.
JBJ

[Ross]

I have two "survivor" hives. The first lived in a tree in my neighbors yard at least 3 years before it fell. I moved the log to my yard where they lived another year. I moved them to a hive for a year (and marked the queen), and then split (cutdown) them to create a second hive (same queen). They look like common Italians, maybe a little smaller. They are quite gentle and seem economical on stores. They made honey last year when nothing else did. No treatments so far. I am feeding them early this year hoping for more splits.

[size="1"][ January 09, 2006, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Ross ][/size]

[Michael Bush]

>Agreed! We need to define treatment.

IMO
Treatment: Any intervention of any kind other than: standard hive manipulations that would be done anyway and feeding if there is a dearth or if we failed to leave them enough food for winter.

Treatments: FGMO, Oxalic acid, Essential oils, heavy smoking with any kind of material with the intent of dislodging mites or killing them, grease patties, antibiotic, pesticides, thymol, menthol. I'm sure we can think of more.

[Joel]

Comb rotation then would not be treatment?

[MountainCamp]

This is a discussion going on under "what is a treatment".

There are alot of views on what is or is not a treatment.