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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    I was wondering what if anything was planted for bees by the guys/gals of the forum. I have got some ***** willow that I am going to plant behind where my new hives are going. In time they will give noon time shade to the hives. ***** willows are a great source of early pollen to help build those collonies up.
    JC

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    brown county,indiana,usa
    Posts
    571

    Wink

    i agree, i think those sorts of willows are the first significant pollen bloom here.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    Hillbilly,
    I have a Saphire Dragon tree in my front yard that is going on four years old. It is the most unusual tree I have ever grown.

    The first year it grew 12 ft with no branches and leaves that measured up to 36 inches across. The third year it bloomed with the most beautiful purple and yellow flower clusters.

    I was doing a search on the tree, it's a paulownia (oops sp?) The article stated that it was a honey producer as well as many other great aspects of the variety. They were trumphing it up a lot.

    My question is do you know of any other information relating it to honey producing?

    Thanks, Bill

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    brown county,indiana,usa
    Posts
    571

    Post

    paulownia(paulonia tomentosa) trees are native to china,i've heard the wood is used for building temples,don't know about nectar value though.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    They are also called a cucumber tree. The wood is alot like balsa and used to make RC model airplanes. Most of the logs are sold to the netherlands to make those wooden shoes. But it is another large family of trees. I do not know if the ones in the mountains around here is a native or not but they grow wild here.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    brown county,indiana,usa
    Posts
    571

    Post

    i've seen them spread on their own pretty easily.i remember the first time i saw one,i was hiking along in the woods when i came upon this huge fairy tale tree with big purple flowers,it looked too strange to be true.i've found a feral patch near me,if anyone is interested ,we could dig a few up this spring.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    I found out more about your tree. It is sometimes called cucumber but the real cucumber trees is different. It is from china originally but have taken off in the wild but it does not seam to push native species out. It does have list as a good nector source. I asked the only beekeeper I know near me and all he could tell me is they work it. He said there is not enough of them to get a crop of honey from them alone.
    I have know about this other plant for a long time and have seen the bees covering the plant when in bloom. It is a Frag Honeysuckle. The bloom is short and not trumpet shape. It smells so sweet that when hauling them in a van when in bloom that they will actually make you sick in time. I have a large one that I am taking cuttings off of this plant this spring. If any one is interested I could send some cuttings in bubble wrapped envolope.

    JC

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    I have a load of seed from this tree. I have already taken a few bunches out to the farm and set them free. I have to admit I don't know if they will grow or not, but the volentirs sprouting off of the roots around the base of the tree really take off.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    I do not know about scattering them around in the grass and such. I planted in a garden row and cover with sand they will almost everyone come up. They are very easy to raise and if in a garden can get over 6 feet in one year with a little fert.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    http://www.forestryimages.org/browse...s.cfm?sub=2426

    Here are many pictures of the Paulownia tree, it is commonly called a Princess tree.
    http://www.forestryimages.org/browse/

    Keep this link handy for looking up all tres.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Enfield,Ct.
    Posts
    470

    Post

    Great link,I saved that one.

    Just check out WEEDS,....PRINCESS TREE.

    INVASIVE/EXOTIC TO NORTH AMERICA

    Jack

  12. #132

    Post

    Once I went to the Arnold Arboretum in late spring.
    There was a cluster of honey locusts (Gleditsia species) flowering. One from Texas had much more flowers, and was abuss with bees.
    Does anyone know if this was other than a fluke nectar run for one tree? Could there be a variety of honey locust which produces much more nectar?

    Also, there are two Black Locust relatives, native to NA, that might be good and easy bee plants. Neither gets as tall as Black Locust - they both grow 3-4 meters/ 12-15 feet tall.
    Bristly Locust has twigs and pods covered with a layer of 1-1.5 centimeter/ 1/2-5/8 inch long, .3 millimeter/1/32" thick bristles so dense that, even though sharp-ended, grabbing them can't hurt you. It flowers with Black Locust, the pink flowers being slightly larger.
    The plant spreads by suckers like Black Locust, but is not long-lived, lasting about 15 years.
    ------------------------------
    ALERT!: HEADING OFF-THREAD! BEES FORGOTTEN BELOW! (except once)
    I expect that it fixes and releases about 50 lbs/ac (~50 kgs/ha) of nitrogen per year, as Black Locust does. I think it would make a great 'nurse crop'. Nurse crops shade lower trunks to prevent lower branches of timber trees from growing much. This leaves the lumber from the lowest part with less knots, increasing quality and value. A nurse crop should be shorter-lived than the main timber crop, to block other early competitors, yet stop competing itself later, which Bristly Locust does by having a short lifetime. A nurse crop that also provides nitrogen has extra value.
    If one chooses a timber crop that also has valuable nuts, like some varieties of Black and other Walnuts, one can also get valuable nut crops as well as timber and honey. I've read that Italian chestnut orchards provide much pollen for bees, while the symbiotic bolete mushroom crop harvested beneath them can equal the chestnut crop in value.

    Brian Cady

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Catonsville, MD. USA
    Posts
    252

    Cool

    On 11/7/03, I posted about seeding various areas with sweet clover seed, vetch and dutch white.

    Just today, 1/25, I received e-mail regarding this post indicating that I should amend my ways. See below for that e-mail. Question is: Should I stop seeding based on the author of this e-mail's assertions? Comments please. Note: my original post words that was part of this referred to e-mail is in brackets [].

    ******************************************
    Subject: planting for bees damages the environment

    Text:

    Mr. Seets,

    I was alarmed to read your post to the bee forum re your illegal planting of hairy vetch and other non-native seeds in your neighbors' yards and especially in "wild areas", parks, etc.

    [At night, I will seed the neighbors' lawns with Dutch White clover seed. Even though the bees aren't crazy about this short clover, It will survive the lawnmower and bloom prodigously.

    I have seeded "wild areas" with sweet clover, both white and yellow. After doing a couple hundred pounds of seed over several years, I have found that the seedlings do NOT compete will with previously established growth (weeds, grass, etc.). The clover I mention needs to be seeded in cultivated soil to flourish.

    Hairy Vetch: Now this is a seed that is voracious enough to compete with other establish growths. I have cast this seed next to roads, wild areas, parks, abandoned areas and they (vetch) seems to do quite well - even through last year's drought (surprisingly so). The vetch produces a plethora of purple flowers that the bees seem continually eager to work.]

    These plants compete and succeed against native wildflowers and other plants and can irreparably damage the entire ecosystem. When you change the availability of plant material as a food source, shelter, etc, you potentially endanger all kinds of organisms, from plants to insects to mammals. Millions of your tax dollars are spent every year in an attempt to prevent the invasion of these very plants into parks and other natural areas. Don't sabotage these efforts.

    Please restrict your planting for bees to your own property or other private property where you have the owner's permission.

    Sincerely,
    Another beekeeper



  14. #134
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Post

    >These plants compete and succeed against native wildflowers and other plants and can irreparably damage the entire ecosystem.

    I don't know anywhere that doesn't already have white clover. I don't know anything about hairy vetch.

    >When you change the availability of plant material as a food source, shelter, etc, you potentially endanger all kinds of organisms, from plants to insects to mammals.

    If you buy wildlife mixes they almost always contain some clover, some birdsfoot trefoil, some alfalfa and some kind of grass. Most mammals that eat plants need the protien from clover.

    >Millions of your tax dollars are spent every year in an attempt to prevent the invasion of these very plants into parks and other natural areas. Don't sabotage these efforts.

    I don't know about "these very plants". I'm not aware of any efforts against them. Again, the one I know the least about is the hairy vetch. It is true that some states have made efforts to restore native plants to the sides of roads, but I notice that here in Nebraska the most popular things the highway department plants are NOT native.

    >Please restrict your planting for bees to your own property or other private property where you have the owner's permission.

    Probably true that some people would be offended by you planting clover in their yards. You can plant it in mine anytime.

    Maybe it's good advice. I would be curious to know about any actual laws against planting any particular species of plant that you've listed. Or perhaps the "ilegal" reference is simply assuming it because you don't have permission, which is probably true.


  15. #135
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Thumbs down

    When I read your origional post I thought your ingenuity was clever, got a big grin. It also gave me an idea about my next door neighbor, my *** hole brother in law, who needs to be irritaded. Your idea sure is nicer than writing obsenities in his lawn with fertalizer.

    I will not address any of the authors points, but I will address their convictions, or lack of them. If one will not stand in the light for what they believe, then you should not instill any credence into it either.

    If I think you are worm dust, I will tell you and sign my name to it. Hiding behind an ananomus signature is just chicken ****.

    Sorry, my spelling sucks tonight.

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    McMinnville, TN, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post

    Clovers are so easily pushed aside by native plants that I know they would not be a problem. Vetch is harder to get rid of once it is going strong. But the state of TN uses it on steep banks until the grass takes to it. It does in enough time crowd out the vetch. vetch will grow in lower light levels than grass or clover. There is a hay field that I use to cut that was originally sown in vetch. The whole field is now fescue which is a non native to our area. But around the fence rows where it did not get cut by the mowers before the seed were ripe and where the shade holds of the grass it is growing well. I would watch where I sowed the vetch but the clover would be planted on every bare spot I found near my hives.
    About our tax dollars, when in college I helped plant a few wild flower plots on the side of the interstate. The state even put up signs do not mow and do not pick flowers in this area. The TDOT(TN department of Transportation) was caught mowing the area and sowing grass seeds to over take the endangered wild flowers we planted.

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Catonsville, MD. USA
    Posts
    252

    Cool

    Also, it is generally know that the clovers and vetches are known as "green manures".

    From the University of Minn, Dept of Horticulture written by Jill MacKenzie in speaking about green manures:

    (http://www.extension.umn.edu/project...4greenman.html)

    "Many plants in the legume family, such as peas, beans, vetch and clover, grow in cooperation with soil-dwelling bacteria. These bacteria live in nodules on the roots of legumes. They take nitrogen gas from the air and convert it to a form plants can use. This process is often referred to as "nitrogen fixation" or "fixing nitrogen." When the legume dies and its roots begin to decompose, residual nitrogen becomes available to other plants."

    It has been pointed out in other sources, especially here in the Maryland area with reference to the Chesapeake Bay and the consequences of fertilizer run off into the bay killing the fish, crabs, etc., that using clover on lawns can provide up to 30% of the lawns nitrogen needs and reduce the need for the fertilizing activities that so many homeowners engage in each year. This act alone would have a trmendous impact on reducing the bay and other watershed pollution.

    Thanx.

    Oh yes, and as Led Zepplin put it..

    "I don't care what the neighbors say."

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    Hillbilly:
    I've been looking for information on the frag honeysuckle and can not find frag anywhere. Could it be the tatarian honeysuckle? Or maybe the twinberry?

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Bartonville, TX USA
    Posts
    456

    Post

    > millions of your tax dollars are spent every year on eradication

    I have seen legions of young Conservation Corps carefully weeding the yards of our neighbors of ill seeded vetch and clover placed by beekeeping miscreantes on secretive midnight planting parties. I feel so sorry for them having to pull hairy vetch on their knees, the hairs of the vetch impaling their hands, the hairy vetch mites migrating to the hair on the back of their knuckles, the sun beating down on their shaved heads while the wicked beekeepers laugh from the shade of their veils.

    yeah right.

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Catonsville, MD. USA
    Posts
    252

    Cool

    wfarler,

    good one. made me laugh!

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