Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

PLANTING FOR BEES

84K views 243 replies 62 participants last post by  BULLSEYE BILL 
#1 ·
I have read that plantings for bee forage is not generaly a profitable endevor.
OK, so this is a hobby.
I have ten acres of crop land left that was not put into CRP and would like to put it into use for the bees.
My area is just west of the Flint Hills in eastern central Kansas. Main crops in this area are wheat, milo, soybeans, corn and sorgum. Alfalfa and clover do quite well here, I do not know if canola would.
I know that the clovers will bloom at different times and there is some overlap, I do not know in which order they bloom. I have thought of sowing a mix of white, yellow, and red with alfalfa, however it may be better to strip sow them seperatly in hope of cutting them to possibly entice a second bloom.
I have quite a few questions and would like anyones input on how they would or have done this.
Some terms that I have read and do not know are the names; sainfoin, trefoil, and trifolium clovers. What are these?
The local co-op listed both red and crimson clover, is one better for bees than the other? Another that I had not know of is hubam.
And lastly, does anyone know of a source for goldenrod seed?
Any help would be appreciated.
Bill
 
See less See more
#2 ·
>Alfalfa and clover do quite well here, I do not know if canola would.
I know that the clovers will bloom at different times and there is some overlap, I do not know in which order they bloom. I have thought of sowing a mix of white, yellow, and red with alfalfa, however it may be better to strip sow them seperatly in hope of cutting them to possibly entice a second bloom.

And you could sell the hay.


>Some terms that I have read and do not know are the names; sainfoin, trefoil, and trifolium clovers. What are these?

Sainfoin. It's a very long lived clover from Asia and Europe. Some stands in Montana are 60 years old. Many clovers do not live that well for this long and have to be reseeded every other year. Sainfoin does not need to be reseeded. It can survive -40 F or more and requires a soil rich in lime. It is drought tolerant. Might do well where you are if you have a lot of lime in the soil.

Trefoil. It's a legume most like alfalfa, but with a more triangular leaf. It's a bit more hardy than alfalfa, tolerates more variance in soil type and is popular for plantings for wild animal habitat because it does well for a long time without intervention. This should do well for you. I have planted it, but my horses eat it before the bees get to use it, so I can't say how the nectar is.


Trifolium. This is just the genus for clover. All of them are trifoliums. It means, (can you gues?) it has three leaves.


I have planted, white, sweet, red, crimson and some kind of subclover along with alfalfa and trefoil. When it managed to bloom, without being eaten by the horses, because it's in one of the areas the horses can't get to, then sometimes the bees are all over them and sometimes they ignore them. I think it depends on what other crops are available at the time.

>The local co-op listed both red and crimson clover, is one better for bees than the other?

Actually I was under the impression the sweet clover was better, but the bees seem to like them all.

>Another that I had not know of is hubam.

This is one kind of sweet clover and I think it will work well if you have clay soil and a ph of 7 or higher.

>And lastly, does anyone know of a source for goldenrod seed?

It's a weed, but I have no idea where you could buy seed. You could probably keep you eyes open and find some along the road right of way and either get seed or transplant some. I think it will spread quickly if the grass has been plowed under.

Another weed you could get from roadsides is chickory. The bees seem to love it.

I'm going to plan buckwheat for the bees. It's cheap enough, it's an annual, but if you do several plantings in the spring so they bloom at different times, it will go to seed and the seeds will come back up the same year. If you time it right I think you can have buckwheat blooming for them from fairly early spring until the winter freeze, and the bonus is the honey is worth more. If you want you can cut the buckwheat for hay just before it goes to seed. The animals all love it. But then you'd have to replant it.

Another plus, if you like deer, the deer love all of the clovers and the buckwheat.

I never get to cash in on this as the horses beat them to it.
 
#3 ·
I have planted buckwheat. 10 acres of it and it will bloom and set seed from about 35 days after planting until a frost kills it. When you walk through it the smell is great. The bees only feed on it very early in the morning till about 10:00 then they stop. If you let it go to 60 to 70 days you can plow it under and the seed from the plants will grow the same year. If you plow down the second growth it makes a great green manure crop. We let ours grow and did not combine it in the fall. We had anywhere from 30 to 50 deer out there all winter long. Oh and by the way the amount of buckwheat honey they brought in was amazing it total zero. They prefered the uncut alfalfa field to the north. I would stick to white and yellow sweet clover and mix in some hairy vetch. Plant it in the spring then no till some in the following fall so you will have alternating blooms.
 
#4 ·
>Might do well where you are if you have a lot of lime in the soil.

Limestone everywhere, the soil here is black gumbo, sticky when wet and hard as concrete when dry.

I will check into the trefoil.

>The local co-op listed both red and crimson clover, is one better for bees than the other?

I read that the red and crimson is better suited for larger bees which have longer toungs.

>Another that I had not know of is hubam.
This is one kind of sweet clover and I think it will work well if you have clay soil and a ph of 7 or higher.

I will have to check the ph. I had to neutralize it in the garden with bonemeal.

I found a source for goldenrod seed, my pockets aren't deep enough for it though, $12. per ounce, $125. per pound! I seem to remember about where I saw some in the ditch, guess I'll have to go hunting for that place.

I will also look into the hairy vetch. Looks like so far that my best bets are white and yellow clover, alfalfa, hairy vetch, trifoil, look for some goldenrod seed and perhaps chickory.

OK, now the rest of you have to have some ideas too! Don't be shy... I appreciate the help.
Bill
 
#5 ·
I have much goldenrod in my fence rows and the bees seem to love it. It makes a very late, dark, strong honey that many people don't like and it granulates in about 4 to 6 weeks. Some people like it but many don't. Once started Goldenrod spreads like wildfire. The crop that I raise that the bees seem to like is sweet clover but you need to let it flower before cutting it for hay. Cutting it means that you will need to replant yearly. We use it for hay and green manure to rebuild the soil for other crops in rotation.
Clint

------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan
 
#6 ·
Ive always thought a few acres of black locust trees would be a nice honey planting.The per/acre yeild is one of the highest at about 1500 lbs a acre potential.Its usually a pretty dependable crop just make sure the seed source came from trees north of your location.The land could be put into Forest Reserve to save on taxes and the trees could be coppiced for fence posts or small logs.
 
#7 ·
You can buy sourwood trees from Gurneys and they are supposed to be able to grow as far north as me, in South Eastern Nebraska.

I love locust wood, and I like the trees, but I would not want to be cutting them into posts or logs. Those thorns hurt for weeks afterwards.

Also if you have horses here's some thoughts:

"BLACK LOCUST
Robinia pseudo-acacia
(pea family)

TOXICITY RATING: High to moderate.

ANIMALS AFFECTED: Horses are particularly at risk, but all animals ingesting the plant may be poisoned.

DANGEROUS PARTS OF PLANT: Leaves, especially wilted leaves, young shoots, pods, seeds, inner bark.

CLASS OF SIGNS: Depression, poor appetite, weakness, paralysis, abdominal pain, diarrhea (which may be bloody) and abnormalities in the heart rate and/or rhythm. Death is possible. "

This is from http://www.vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant48.htm
 
#8 ·
I have not had any goldenrod honey, I have read some discussion here on this board and was looking for nectar plants that would be blooming in the late fall, mainly for stores to overwinter the bees. If it crystalizes in 4 to 6 weeks I would think that it would not be that good of a choice.

We do have locust trees, whether they are black or not I am not sure. I went to Michaels link he posted and the leaves seem to be right. The thorns on ours are four to eight inches on the trunk of the tree.

>I love locust wood, and I like the trees, but I would not want to be cutting them into posts or logs. Those thorns hurt for weeks afterwards.

Amen to that! It makes good firewood, but tends to rot quickly. We put Osage Orange in the ground here.

We have never been without horses, I guess that we have been lucky not to have any get sick from snackin' on locust trees.

Guess I'll go dig out the Gurneys catalog, sourwood, eh?
Bill
 
#9 ·
Franc,

Could you share where you obtained your yield information? Thanks.

I would like to plant some nectar sources in nearby ditches and possibly railroad tracks. Both have established grasses and other weeds/flowers, with more gravel than soil. Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Brandon Shaw (edited February 05, 2003).]
 
#14 ·
http://www.beeculture.com/beeculture/book/index.html
The above website has some good info on pollination of various plants and the nectar content of these plants. I have only been beekeeping for a year, but bee planting has become a major interest for me since gardening is my primary hobby. In fact, the garden is the reason I started keeping bees in the first place. During the Fall, I noticed the wild asters were covered with bees, so I saved seeds from the plants after the bloom and have planted them in flats to set out during the Spring this year. Some other late season bloomers that bees reportedly like are ironweed, Joe-pye weed, wild phlox, boneset, smartweed, thoroughwort, and sunflowers.

[This message has been edited by dragonfly (edited February 07, 2003).]
 
#15 ·
>Some other late season bloomers that bees reportedly like are ironweed, Joe-pye weed, wild phlox, boneset, smartweed, thoroughwort, and sunflowers.

I wasn't aware that sunflowers had much nectar. I'll have to look into that.

Around here the smartweed is very hard to control and I would not want to plant it.

As to early season, I get friends in town to gather their dandelion heads and I plant the seeds all the time.
 
#16 ·
>Some other late season bloomers that bees reportedly like are ironweed, Joe-pye weed, wild phlox, boneset, smartweed, thoroughwort, and sunflowers.

I wasn't aware that sunflowers had much nectar. I'll have to look into that.

Around here the smartweed is very hard to control and I would not want to plant it.

As to early season, I get friends in town to gather their dandelion heads and I plant the seeds all the time.
 
#17 ·
I'm not sure how much nectar sunflowers have, but I have read that some beekeepers specialize in sunflower honey, so there must be a fair amount, or maybe it just depends on the variety of sunflower. I have read that smartweed makes good honey. Any experience on whether or not this is true?
 
#19 ·
>I'm not sure how much nectar sunflowers have, but I have read that some beekeepers specialize in sunflower honey, so there must be a fair amount, or maybe it just depends on the variety of sunflower.

I don't know. I guess I always just figured they were going for the pollen on them.

>I have read that smartweed makes good honey. Any experience on whether or not this is true?

I try not to have any smartweed and I don't have much, but I have friends who have a lot of problems with it. One of them also has a hive, I'll have to ask him if he's noticed, but my guess is there are still so many things around that it would be hard to say if it was smartweed honey.
 
#21 ·
Smartweed!! Blahh...
I spray Smartweed out of our crops every year. It can be a curse if it is not dealt with early. Grow something worth while!
Sweet clover is a gold mine for any neighbouring beekeeper. Seed it thick, collect the supers full of honey, and harvest the seed after bloom. Win win situation.

Ian
 
#24 ·
Bill, Try these links.Dr. George Ayers has written extensively on bee forage.taken from a google search of MSU Web site.

The Other Side of BEEKEEPING: July 1992
... has convinced me that this is so (Ayers et al. ... provide the best opportunities for
making bee forage plantings ... might be satisfied simply with keeping the valleys ... www.ent.msu.edu/abj/Article%20pages/jul92.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

The Other Side of BEEKEEPING: September 1993
... By GEORGE S. AYERS and SANDY AYERS. ... of much of that lawn with a low maintenance, low
growing, bee forage ground ... We have no information on their keeping qualities ... www.ent.msu.edu/abj/Article%20pages/jul97.html - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

The Other Side of BEEKEEPING: September 1993
... 1980's when the Michigan State University bee forage project was ... from our diversionary
planting study (Ayers et al ... the screen of the cage was keeping the plants ... www.ent.msu.edu/abj/Article%20pages/sep95.html - 31k - Cached - Similar pages

The Other Side of BEEKEEPING: January 1993
... Editor of ABJ) provides a valuable service by keeping the Apicultural ... also the genesis
of my interest in bee forage ... in their entirety are referred to Ayers et al ... www.ent.msu.edu/abj/Article%20pages/jan93.html - 31k - Cached - Similar pages

The Other Side of BEEKEEPING: September 1993
... by GEORGE S. AYERS and SANDY AYERS. ... 1. Desirable properties of a low maintenance bee
forage planting. ... slow down the herbivore's feeding rate by keeping it small ... www.ent.msu.edu/abj/Article%20pages/mar99.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages

The Other Side of BEEKEEPING: September 1993
... error is the best way to proceed, keeping what seems ... Copyright © 1992-1999, American
Bee Journal All rights reserved. ... Document author(s): George S. Ayers E-Mail ... www.ent.msu.edu/abj/Article%20pages/mar96.html - 31k - Cached - Similar pages

First pollen in CT. is skunk cabbage.Look in the purple "hoods".Pale green pollen

Jack
 
#26 ·
>Does any one knows Phacelia Tanacetifolia?
I don't know the name of it in English. That flower gives about 40 Kg of honey for every 1000 sq. mt. and wants almost no water

Pacelia Tanacetifolia aka Lacy Phacelia aka Purple Tansy aka Fiddleneck. Annual. Native to AZ, CA, KS, ME, MA, MI, NV. No idea why so wide a variety of climtates and why only there.
http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/plant_profile.cgi?symbol=PHTA
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top