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  1. #1
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    Oct 2004
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    So I just got a pint of Sucrocide... the insert that came in the bag with it to describe calculating your sprayer's output/second (and the ABJ article from which it was excerpted, which I have on file) says to mix to .25%. The Sucrocide bottle's label, however, states that a .625% solution is the correct dosage and the mixing directions are based accordingly. Two and a half times as strong!

    The ABJ article says that bee mortality begins to manifest at .75%, which seems like a too-slow sprayer sweep away from .625%.

    What's going on here, and what have folks used successfully?
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  2. #2
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    Sep 2004
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    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    Ben I agree that the jump from 0.625% is too close to 0.75%.

    Do they talk about calibrating your sprayer?? That will involve knowing exactly how much water you output in a given time.

    We do it regularly on our right of way sprayers.

    Concentration is fine to have, but spray output varies radically. If your sprayer is putting out let say 3 oz of water in 15 sec. and the one the directions reference is 5 oz per 15 sec, then 0.625% is fine (even on the light side).

    Hope I did not confuse the matter any more than needed.

    Main point is to know exactly (in volume per time) what your sprayer is doing.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2004
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    Ben,

    I just read instructions online and they state 3 tablespoons in 2 gallons of water. Then apply 1.5 ounces of this solution per full frame.

    This is where the calibration of your sprayer comes in.

    Get a nozzle that is fine enough so you get a rate of about 1 ounce per 4 seconds (or whatever rate works for you). Then spray each side for 3 seconds (3/4 ounce) to get recommended coverage.

    3 tbsp(1.5 ounces) in 2 gallon is approx 0.6% by my calculator

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Macon, GA USA
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    I went through all those calibration procedures and it came out to be about 2 seconds per frame side for my sprayer. However when I actually started treating, that quickly went out the window for several reasons.

    First, most folks don't use a stopwatch -- lots of error there. Second, not every frame is covered with bees and of course there's always a bunch of bees on the side of the hive, on the bottom board, and even on the "front porch". No one wants to sit there and calculate fractions of a second spray times.

    Once I got started, I just got every bee wet with the stuff. You just have to watch the ones on a horizontal surface (botom board) to make sure they don't drown if a small puddle forms in a corner for instance. Those on vertical surfaces are no problem. I purposely skipped over the queen if I saw her. I also tried not to spray into any open brood, although they were usually covered with bees.

    So I don't think spray time is that critical. But the concentration of the mix is very critical. More than 3 tbsp per 2 gallons and you'll probably kill a lot of bees. Less than that and you won't kill many mites.

    >The ABJ article says that bee mortality begins to manifest at .75%

    They're referring to concentration level, not spray time. Once they're coated, any excess runs off so with the proper concentration, I think it's hard to apply too much.

    > the insert that came in the bag with it to describe calculating your sprayer's output/second (and the ABJ article from which it was excerpted, which I have on file) says to mix to .25%. The Sucrocide bottle's label, however, states that a .625% solution is the correct dosage

    The .625% refers the ratio of Sucrocide to water. The .25% refers to the ratio of active ingredient to water. Sucrocide itself is only 40% active ingredient. Both numbers indicate the same concentration.

    Of course all of this is just my opinion based on my limited experience. I don't officially recommend any variation from the manufacturer's instructions.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2004
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    Not meaning to argue here but the amount applied is as important as concentration. (talking small error here, not 10% vs. 0.625%.

    If instructions call for a side of a frame to get 0.75 ounces in 2 seconds at a specified concentration and you spray for 4 seconds, that frame got 2X the doseage.

    Stop watches are not needed. Just do the "one - boom - two - boom" method. Just as long as you count the same way applying as calibrating.

    I would use a finer spray nozzle to get the time to spray 1.5 ounces into the 8 second range if possible, so each side would be 4 second.

  6. #6
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    Apr 2004
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    Macon, GA USA
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    I won't argue that as those are the manufacturer's instructions. I'm just reporting what I did. I did get a pretty good mite drop and didn't have a big bee kill.

  7. #7
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    Sep 2004
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    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    I have been wanting to try it but been discouraged to hear some with poor results.

    My mite count is almost zero I think due to small cell??? But being a newbie I am wanting to treat with something before winter for insurance.

    Good to hear you had good knock down!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Lyons, CO
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    Good eyes GaSteve; you're right. The package does say, on closer reading, .625% solution of this product, not of the active ingredient. I'll begin my regression in the spring, but for now am using OA and sucrocide.

    Question: how does that first female mite get to your colony in the first place? Assuming that your package/nuc/split started clean that is. Do mites travel with foragers and grab on to new victims on flowers?
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
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    I am contemplating taking the small cell plunge next year. There are an awful lot of folks who haven't treated for mites for a long time which is encouraging.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    I am sold on it........

    I am going to start shaving the end bars now to further reduce the cell size.

    Extra labor up front. But if you factor in the labor you don't have regarding mite control down the road it washes out a bit.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Macon, GA USA
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    >Question: how does that first female mite get to your colony in the first place?

    They can't live long without a host, so they must come in on bees -- either yours or someone else's.

    >Assuming that your package/nuc/split started clean that is.

    That's a big assumption. You only have to miss one for them to get started.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
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    Drones from other colonies or robbers carry many diseases.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
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    Greetings . . .

    >3 tbsp(1.5 ounces) in 2 gallon is approx 0.6% by my calculator

    My calculator says it is a WEAK solution.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Colorado
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    Aspera hit it on the head. Remember V. mites prefer drone comb and therefore inhabit the drone bodies more often. And keeping in mind that drones are welcome to overnight in strange hives, they just spread mites all over the country. We can't stop that, so we have to plan on raising bees that can fight off the mites.

    Hawk
    KC0YXI

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