Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 39 of 39
  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Six and it's my final offer!

    I didn't think we were that far apart on this iddee. We're not. I'm certainly not advocating foisting a hobby off as a business. If it's a hobby, fine. If you want to call it a business then you should do so with the clear intention of (eventually at least) making money- otherwise, it's a hobby, and you're in the wrong business [img]smile.gif[/img]

    That said, if your business doesn't make money for a while, that's perfectly OK and actually to be expected. I already said that most small businesses fail in the first 3 years- what I didn't say is that they fail because they're under-capitalized i.e., they didn't have enough seed money thrown at them in the beginning to get to the point where they ARE profitable.

    I also firmly believe it is our duty as citizens of this country to pay the least taxes possible while obeying the law. That's what the really rich people do [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Cheers,

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    6 gets you a prise of your choice.
    The only thing I disagree with is the reason for new failures. The biggest reason I have seen is a talented person with full knowledge of their trade thinks that is all they need to run their own business.
    The truth is, that is probably 40% or less of what it takes. The remaining 60% is administrative. I have seen too many money making businesses go under, not from the work they produce, but the management of the money made.
    HA! And one of the biggest money mistakes made is paying more taxes than necessary.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    iddee- I'm not going to argue about the reason for new failures- it's another 6 of one and half a dozen of another issue. Without sufficient administrative attention to business, you could be out of business before you realized you were going broke. It happened to me in fact- back in the 80's I was a self employed land surveyor in business with another guy- we went nearly a whole year without realizing we were losing money. What did we know? We had plenty of cash flow... Thankfully, we figured it out before it was too late, and went on to lose even larger sums of money in the early 90's [img]smile.gif[/img]

    The fact is, that most people start up a business on a shoe string and don't have enough of a grip on their operations to plan properly for the needed cash to get them where their vision wants to take them. Under capitalization. They fold not because their idea was bad, or their approach was flawed, but because they just couldn't keep the doors open long enough for money to start coming in... but again, this might well be due to lack of an administrative handle on what they were trying to do.

    I happen to have run more small businesses into the ground than most people will start in their lifetime. I'm not proud [img]smile.gif[/img] And FYI, never once did the IRS say "Gee, after 3 years, you failed to make any money, and now you're folding. Musta been a hobby" [img]smile.gif[/img]

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    George, let's go fishin' [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Great idea! I hear wax moth worms make great bait.. at least there's some use for the little bastids [img]smile.gif[/img]

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Post

    george ferguson sezs:
    The fact is, that most people start up a business on a shoe string and don't have enough of a grip on their operations to plan properly for the needed cash to get them where their vision wants to take them. Under capitalization.

    tecumseh replies:
    according to a study I read some years ago it directly stated that the stituation described by George Ferguson is accurate in 90% of the new business start-ups. Inability to plan for financial resourses is the monster killer of new business.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    I have, as I've already said, had plenty of opportunity to learn why new small businesses fail. Sigh. I hate it when I'm right.

    Planning for sufficient start-up financing is important if you're intent on hatching your own crackpot scheme to make money, but it's also really important to not let fear and common sense stop you from doing something, even if it turns out to be wrong! Get out there and start a business! This country was founded by people willing to go out on a limb- which ironically, was the name of one of my first small businesses- a tree pruning and removal company that died because we couldn't get insurance... perhaps the name wasn't ideal either- our motto was "Always prompt, no matter how long it takes". That was back in the early 70's when I was young and foolish. Now I'm old and foolish, and keeping bees. Ah, how fun it is to reminisce [img]smile.gif[/img]

    For the budding entrepreneur, there are a lot of good resources. The SBA (Small Business Administration) has a program called CORE or SCORE- basically, you get the benefit of the wisdom and experience of a retired executive to oversee and help trouble shoot your operation.

    Also, NASE (National Association of the Self Employed) offers a lot of services and programs including health insurance, business insurance, and lots of advice.

    Make use of the resources at your disposal. Both the SBA and NASE are on the web.

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    A great tree cutter lost his business.
    A great cook lost his cafe.
    A great mechanic lost his garage.
    Like I said, the work done in a business is small compared to the admin.

    <<Inability to plan for financial resourses <<

    Better known as money management.

    Yes, that is the leading cause of failure, our only difference is you seem to think the money isn't there, where I think the money was there and was wasted.

    I started my business in 1986 with $400.00.
    I bought 2 machines and rented them out. Today, I sell from 600 to 900 thousand dollars per year.
    You can get an idea of what I have built at www.caudlesew.com

    As the old saying goes, it's not what you have, but how you use it.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    I loved beekeeping as a hobby, I still love it as a business. Having said that running a business is fraught with looming deadlines for almost everything,(bee inspector, state sales tax, Fed. tax, honey orders, market preps. treatment/mgt schedules, weather difficulties, purchases, fixing whatever broke today, web page updates, the next marketing plan and so on). There are many days where it is a job and a chore to pick up the slack and get it done. In any farming plan to work long, physical days and do things in weather and with perserverence that sometimes will make the 9 to 5 job look like a vacation.
    I agree with Curry, start small, plan your work around you and your willing family and find your niche. I still work my day job because I like what I do there too and the money has allowed me to expand quicker. I still work 40 hrs a week in my bee business and drive 550 miles every Saturday to get to market. Once I clear the insurance hurdle though I look forward to days spent afield, new challenges and actually making my living from what I really love doing.

    If pure enjoyment is what it's about for you , don't let making it a business ruin it.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    >>Yes, that is the leading cause of failure, our only difference is you seem to think the money isn't there, where I think the money was there and was wasted.

    Sometimes it isn't there, and sometimes it is and is mismanaged. It's largely irrelevant if the net result is the same: business failure. In both cases, failure might be avoided with sound management and attention to financial details.

    I have to add that not ALL my business ventures have ended in abject ruin. I've had my occassional successes. Often what happened was I just got bored and decided to move on. In one case I just didn't like the handwriting on the wall and decided I'd leave the profession to my incompetent competitors to sort out, or not- I'd had about as much fun as I could stand.

    And as you point out iddee, starting out on a shoe string doesn't mean your venture is doomed. Sound management can make a big difference.

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Post

    Joel, is that a typo? You drive APPROX. 11 hours weekly to get to market?? How long is the market open?

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Inver Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,462

    Post

    The few paths to success are hard to sort out from the many paths to failure.

    Success comes easy for a select few. For some reason fortune smiles on them. The rest of us have to settle for a life-time of hard work, which by the way, has it's rewards.
    Linux - World domination through world cooperation

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Wheatfield, IN
    Posts
    2,068

    Post

    >>I may end up getting rich with my bee business.

    That statement alone throws up a red flag to me... While I'm sure it was said in jest, I have no doubt that many people starting small businesses go into it with the idea that that can start the business and in a few years it will make them rich. I have met several people like that. That is the type of sales pitch or mentality that pulls people into the pyramid type schemes... they show you all the money you "COULD" make.

    I do not run beekeeping as a business but I will probably have to file next year if I plan on trying to do some pollination and sell the honey from 25-30 hives.

    People are different with different skills, access to different opportunities etc. That said, for me personally I plan on easing myself into the business. I will set different goals along the way as litmus tests. Will I be able to make a living at it? I don't know. Can I find my niche? Can I handle 500 or more hives on my own? I don't know. I'll see how I do with 50 first. Then we'll try 100 etc etc. Will I be able to sell at least some of it retail or will I be primarily dependent on the wholesale mkt. Will I be able to make the right contacts in the business? You get the point. It takes time to establish your market and time to establish your relationships. Do I think I can handle it yes.... but only by doing it will I KNOW. I have heard of people with 25 hives buying a 500 colony operation and then find out that they can't handle it. They didn't have the network, the know-how, the markets, the skills (money and time mgmt). They go out of business and are broke.

    Is it exciting to dream? You bet. However, I feel that with a realistic, cautious, approach you have a better (certainly not guaranteed) chance of success.

    >>Every three years they made him shut down but he would simply start again with a little different name or different business goals

    I don't know the scenario but the way you explained it smells of unethical behavior. Someone just looking for an excuse to write off everything they think they can get away with.

    >>550 miles every Saturday to get to market

    With gas prices that's really gotta cut into the honey profits on a typical weekend.

    Dan
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Lenexa, Kansas
    Posts
    445

    Post

    I would like to say that it is risky for us newbies to take out a loan before our skills are in place.

    For instance, I made some beginners mistakes this spring, and as a result the bees were not well enough built up to produce well. I sold the little honey that I had and I put it in my pocket.

    If I had had loan payments, and 100 hives (instead of 3) that produced that poorly, I would have been in a world of hurt instead of having money in my pocket.

    There WILL be a time for me to borrow, but I need to gain more experience, first.

    I learned a lot about spring build up, about marketing, and about predators. If all goes well NEXT year with my (now 8) hives, then I will consider a loan.

    As a rank newbee, it would be reckless to take on loan payments when I am still this green. If I had, I would have had to default.

    Even if I had had bee experience, I would have needed more experience in marketing.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Chandler, Tx
    Posts
    282

    Post

    I have 6 hives and live on 4 acres. Last year I filed for an agg exemption on 3 acres and left the 1 acre the house is on as homestead that way the IRS can't take my house. I was expecting it to save me a ton on my property taxes but it only saved me like 10%. About $300 savings. But hey that's something at least. I kept all my receipts for everything I bought the entire year that had to do with bees and gave to my tax lady at tax time. To my surprise she said she didn't need them since I didn't make a profit. I suppose the same thing will happen this year too. We're about to move to another house which will be closer to 2 acres so I probably won't even fool with the agg exemtion there. Not even sure you can get agg exempt on 2 acres anyway.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    >>I kept all my receipts for everything I bought the entire year that had to do with bees and gave to my tax lady at tax time. To my surprise she said she didn't need them since I didn't make a profit.

    Propolis, I think you ought to have a talk with your tax lady and make sure you're both on the same page. Is your beekeeping operation a business or a hobby?

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    >>If pure enjoyment is what it's about for you , don't let making it a business ruin it.

    A good point Joel. It happens all too often- turning a hobby you love into a business that you hate. I folded a few operations for just that reason- I enjoyed the work, but running a business took all the fun out of it. Life is too short not to be enjoying yourself.

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Chandler, Tx
    Posts
    282

    Post

    It's a little of both right now but it will probably end up being more of a hobby when we move to a smaller palce in a few months.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    That's no typo Idee. My wife, my son, our dog and I get up Saturday Mornings at 1:45 AM to drive to our Markets that start at 8:00. We are at the markets for about 7 hours and then depending on traffic get home around 8:30-9:00 p.m. (including a rather leisurly stop for dinner) 538 miles all told when the day is done.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads