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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    winnipeg,Manitoba,Canada
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    93

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    I'm cosidering running my production in sigles vs. doubles. I would like to here the pro and cons!I winter outdoors and it can be very cold -30to -50 with the wind!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,740

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    I think in Manitoba, unless you're wintering indoors, I'd do it in double deeps or three mediums, and I'd wrap. Single deeps can survive here (much warmer than there) sometimes, but two deeps is the norm around here to make sure they don't run out of stoes.

    But someone from there would give advice from a posotion of more experience. We usually get -10 to -20 F for a few weeks of winter and a lot of variety of temps the rest of the time. When I was in Laramie WY, we'd get -20 for a month sometimes with occasionally lower temps. I overwintered the bees there in double deeps.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hookstown PA USA
    Posts
    581

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    I wintered my NWCs in a deep with a full medium of honey and they have not moved up into the medium yet. Of course our winter has been pretty wimpy so far.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Langley, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    413

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    The New World Carniolan was originally established in 1982 by Susan Cobey and Tim Lawrence in California. Carniolan stock from across the U.S. and Canada was collected, back crossed, and evaluated to establish the foundation population. Instrumental insemination and a strict annual evaluation protocol are followed to maintain the NWC breeding program. In 1990 the NWC breeding program was moved to Ohio State University. A cooperative effort between OSU and Strachan Apiaries currently maintains and propagates the stock.

    Terry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Langley, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    413

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    Singles vs. Doubles: We found that we got considerably more honey in the past several seasons from singles than from doubles, but also that they were harder to manage spring and fall than the doubles we normally run. The problem is one of either starvation or plugging, and the problems associated with putting pollen patties or grease patties onto the hives. In the spring, a super is needed much earlier than with doubles, and there is no room for patties under or over the excluder; patties need to be adjacent to the brood to work. At both times, it is hard to get enough feed in the form of syrup into a single and still, have room for bees. Needless to say -- but I will repeat -- under no circumstances does one wish to get syrup into the supers.

    The doubles in the same yard, on the other hand looked much better and had few losses. We noted some shortage of feed and will have to get out earlier than some years to tend to them. they may be okay for now, since they consume little feed when not rearing brood, but once the weather warms, they eat a lot . we've been investigating using fondant as an emergency bee feed. I fed sugar syrup to a few yards really early (March) one year and decided that it was a waste. I could not see any difference between the yards I had fed and those I had not, except that I had spent a few hundred dollars on the ones with syrup. We're hoping that fondant will provide subsistence feed for those hives that need it without burning them out.

    The fondant is like stiff creamed honey in consistency and is fed in plastic bags immediately above the cluster. We have verified that the constituents are not toxic to bees, and have reports from other beekeepers who have tried using it.

    Terry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    winnipeg,Manitoba,Canada
    Posts
    93

    Post

    Where do you buy fondant or do you make it! Also how much do you put in a plstic bag?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Langley, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    413

    Post

    Honeyboy---you could spend months here

    http://www.honeybeeworld.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,579

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    I heard of some guys wintering in a single outside up here, but I have never seen it done. Suppose It can be done, less space to heat, but keep in mind, you must have an set amount of food stores regardless if you are in one,two or three boxes.

    If you are going to run singles, why not just simply winter them inside? It is really not as complicated as it sounds. This is my second year at it, and once things are set up, there is nothing to it the next year.

    Two points to keep in mind with single management here,
    -removal of supers near the end of harvest is tricky. As those eight or so frames of brood emerge, starvation, or weaking of the hive can happen very easily. Always be aware of fall flow and weather conditions due to this fact

    -supering of single will happen sooner with singles. So that means all meds and most feeding has to be tied up by then. With doubles, there is more flexability for those management practices to extend into June.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,401

    Post

    > Where do you buy fondant or do you make it!

    You can make it, but it is a mess, and requires
    you to have a known-good candy thermometer and
    lots of patience.

    Easier to buy it if you want to feed a decent
    quantity - ask any baker, and they can order
    you a 5-gallon pail (or more) with their next
    order from their supplier. Most bakers will
    ask you to simply pay "their cost", more often
    if you offer them a good deal on bulk honey
    in 5-gallon pails. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    But feeding fondant means that you screwed up
    in not feeding enough after your last harvest
    (assuming that you are not taking off supers
    in the snow, which I know can happen up there
    in Manitoba). Fondant is a last-ditch attempt
    to feed bees under conditions where liquid
    feed cannot be fed.

  11. #11

    Post

    Check out the website for Pederson Apiaries in Saskatchewn:
    www.sasktelwebsite.net/gilmar/research_and_publications.html

    They winter singles in a climate similar to yours.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norfolk, Nebraska
    Posts
    137

    Post

    whitebark beat me to it. This link was the first thing I thought of when reading this topic. Very interesting reading.

    From experience I would say that singles are:
    1. more efficient from a honey production standpoint.
    2. at (much) greater risk of starvation, especially after stripping down.
    3. need to be wrapped for successful wintering.
    4. have (believe it or not) enough comb area for the queen to lay on and adequate stores (depending on time of year and which is needed).
    5. much more reliant on attentive and intense management.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
    Posts
    494

    Post

    We run several hundred singles for summer honey production & then in the fall we double them up & give them 5 or 6 gallons of HFC to maket thru the winter with a winter cover. Some may need a candy board but all in all they reall make for good bees to split the 1st week of May.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    6,579

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    >>then in the fall we double them up & give them 5 or 6 gallons of HFC to maket thru the winter with a winter cover.

    I know of a guy up here that does the same thing. It works very well for him. It kind of give him the best of both worlds, he recaptures that sencond box of honey, and winters his bees easier by having an easier consumable food for the bees.
    The only point he said was important was to take the supers off at least a week or two sooner than normally to ensure that there is enough feed placed into the 2nd chamber. He fed stronge and hard right after the final honey pull.
    I considered it, but, it leaves alot of chambers in storage unuesd for most of the season. And it is alot of equipment to haul back and fourth every spring and fall.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #15

    Post

    I have been ready alot about single vs double also....Most everyone around here uses single with supers on top for stores. My problem is that the hive I had last year the queen moved up into the super and now that is where they are staying. THe single brood is nearly empty. Any suggetions?
    If you see me runnin' you'd better keep up!
    http://hillshivery.blogspot.com/

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,740

    Post

    Buy more supers? Usualy people move the empty back on top if she won't move down and try to get her to move up. Sometimes you have to uncap the honey over her head to get her to move up though.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kiel WI, USA
    Posts
    2,368

    Post

    >>then in the fall we double them up & give them 5 or 6 gallons of HFC to maket thru the winter with a winter cover.<<

    Are you combining two singles into a double deep? Or does each single get an empty deep and then feed?

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