Building frames

[moposcar]

When building frames for the supers, is it okay to use wood glue in addition to the nails? I have seen a lot of the frames split where the nail went in, and I thought some glue might help keep them longer. How long do frames last if they are not left out in the rain or anything?
Thanks

[bill holmes]

I use an 18 guage pneumatic nail gun to assemble frames. The frames almost never split. I also use wood glue to help hold the frames together.

[Oxankle]

I am strictly an amateur, but I never build frames without glueing them. I use carpenters waterproof wood glue--there is more than one brand, but make sure it it wood glue and waterproof. I looked at some gorilla glue today, but it looks a bit pricey for frames.

When you think about it, using care to assemble frames is good practice. They will last practically forever if you do not let them get eaten by wax moth larvae. They are tedious to build, and you do not want to have to do it over or have them come apart when being handled.
Ox

[The Honey House]

If you soak the end bars in water for about fifteen minutes before assemble you won't get as many splits.

[Roundman]

Hi MOPOSCAR
I usally stand the frame on its end and put a slim frame nail through end bar (1 1/4)Nail from the bee supplie cataloge into the top bar this also helps a lot after they get a few years old they get stuck down a lot more by the bees. this helps them from coming apart when taking them out.

Velbert

[nursebee]

Exterior rated glue!

[Frohnho]

I use tite-bond II to glue my frames. Its waterproof and its approved for food contact.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Tight bond is good, but Gorilla is great! As mentioned the key is to soak the ends before assembly to keep them from cracking and useing ten nails for a strong end result. Be sure to only use a tiny dap of Gorilla glue as it really expands and you will get a lot of foaming seeping out the joints. If you are as anal as I am about building things right, a jig will keep them straight and plumb.

I take way too much time and effort making frames, that is why I hate to do it. Permacomb is the answer for me. Still I like to experiment with things like foundationless frames, and extra deeps.

[scsasdsa]

HI all
I use an air brad nailer and elmers version of gorila glue (cheaper) it needs moisture to cure so soaking the end bars helps with spliting and helps the glue just wipe off excess water and go to it. use very little glue as it foams and fills gaps very messy if you use it like regular glue.

[moposcar]

Thanks for all the great replies everyone!! I never thought about soaking them in water...I will make sure I do that.

I had started using glue on about 5 of them, and then I got worried that it might be harmful or something, so the next 5 I didn't use it. I will make sure I use it on the next ones I do...along with soaking them.

All my frames I have were old ones handed down to me, and this is my first time building them. It takes me a long time b/c I am a perfectionist and want them to last. I do have a jig set up to make sure they are square.

[wayacoyote]

Great question!!!
I was going to glue mine also, but found that I really needed to soak them to prevent the splitting. This led me to think that the glue wouldn't bond to the wet wood.

Will it?
WayaCoyote

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Will it?

Yes. Both Gorilla glue and Tight bond.

[Will]

An old carpenter's trick is to turn the nail over and tap it once dulling the end. The reason the wood splits is the sharp nail goes between the wood fibers splitting them apart. A dull nail punches through wood fibers avoiding the split, like the cut nails of old.

[moposcar]

You learn something new every day!!
Thanks for the tip Will.

[Hillbillynursery]

That works and another one is to rub the nail on wax or a bar of soap.

[Michael Bush]

True, wax works. I have a hole drilled in the handle of all my hammers filled with parafin. A candle works well to fill it. But on a frame the waxed nail will pull out easier. This isn't a problem on nails that are in the "shear" position (meaning the weight of gravity is pulling in such a way that it is pulling at right angles to the direction the nail is in) but isn't very good for nails in the "pull" position (where gravity is trying to pull the same direction as the nail) as the bottom bars often are. The soap would probably be better because it might not STAY as slippery as the wax.

[Flewster]

Why use papprin when Beeswax is better. My grandpa always had a chunck of beeswax with him when ever he did building and he ran the point of the nail into it and he stated it always went in better. So replace that paffrin with beeswax.

[Michael Bush]

I have used both, but parafin is cheaper and works just as well. I use a candle to drip it into the hole usually, although my wax tube fastener would work just as well when I'm putting foundation in.

[wayacoyote]

I built the frame jig from teh "build it" section of this site. It helped a lot. Using staples in the endbars in place of eyelets I think will help strengthen splits. I agree that quality in work in the beginning will produce long-lasting equipment. Some of my top bars came with splits in them already. I patched these up with some dowels drilled in across the grain and some glue. I don't suspect I will ever have a problem from those.

WayaCoyote