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Thread: auction fraud

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Point Pleasant, PA
    Posts
    5

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    Hello all!
    I hope your season is going well. My thoughts go out to all those stricken by the severe weather. Beekeeping is hard enough-labor of love notwithstanding-and I can only imagine what you must be facing.
    It is a little disheartening to come across the bad apples in life, but it has happened to me a couple times in my beekeeping life.
    The first time was in 1973 when I was 13 years old. A commercial guy was selling honey at a local farmers' market and I struck up a conversation. I got my first swarm the previous year, had about two or three colonies by then, and loved to talk bees. This fellow seemed impressed or something and offered to sell me two hives for $20 total. A good deal even then for sure. My dad and I made the 50 mile round trip only getting lost once. There was an odd smell, which I attributed to ripening honey of a strong variety. It was of course AFB. The colonies were nearly wiped out by that point. I got my money back with the help of the bee inspector.We went to the market and confronted him. Imagine the look on the gentleman's face when he exclaimed to me "oh, so you were right, here's your money back." I had called him earlier to tell him my suspicions, he even came to my house and knocked on the hives and said "Look, they're full of honey." That's when I called the inspector. In hindsight, I am appalled to think what kind of _______ (fill in the blank) would take such a cavalier approach to foulbrood. Taking advantage of a youngster I can understand, that is everyday lowlife stuff.
    Anyway, my recent experience is not quite as severe, but it cost more. I bid on some queen-rearing equipment from a fellow in Rome, Georgia. He was paid through Paypal on July 30, 2005. I am still awaiting the goods. I didn't realize until too late that Paypal allows only 45 days post settlement to file a claim, so as far as they are concerned I'm out $110.00.
    I seem to recall somebody posting a warning about this guy being overpriced and slow to ship, but by then I was already hosed.
    The funny thing is, this guy has dozens of positive feedback comments prior to my experience, but several negatives have been posted recently in addition to mine. Maybe he is having a tough time in life all of a sudden, I just don't need him doing so on my nickel. So, beware if you are tempted to do business with him.
    By the way, I am not really cynical. I think beekeepers are on the whole a special bunch of folks. Though we do represent a cross-section of the population in most respects, there is that certain I-know-not-what that sets us apart, if only a wee bit. We come by our knowledge the hard way, that's for sure. That makes it wisdom.
    I appreciate all the people who take the time to post, and debate, and share, and encourage, and even just B.S. sometimes.
    Happy Holidays to all!
    Tim

    [size="1"][ November 09, 2005, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Tim Moran ][/size]
    Beat their game pads into hivetools.<br />Embrace curiousity.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    231

    Post

    I'm sorry to hear of your losses. I too have been scorned by a few bad e-bay sellers and paypal, though luckily not to the degree you have.

    In fact the first trouble I had was also relating to a beekeeping purchase, it was an 'information packet' that turned out to be no more than a CD containing a sparse amount of illegally copied copy written information, that could be found freely on the net, including info stolen from the beesource plans section. It was a poor reproduction too. I also got my only negative feedback from that seller when I confronted him.
    -Robert<br /><a href=\"http://photos.bobsbees.com\" target=\"_blank\">Photos and Such</a>

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,183

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    Pay only with a credit card through PayPal. It gives you another (much better) layer of protection.

    I have been dealing with ebay since 1997 and have only had a couple of bad purchases. Both were resoloved through the credit card. In one I was able to keep the product (defective but servicable) and got a complete refund.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Francisco Eastbay, CA
    Posts
    203

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    Hi Tim,

    You can request from ebay his information and then call him. I think this is the guy (Beeman000_0) I bought some mini nucs off and had to call him every day for several weeks untill he shipped. He said he was having saw problems? I told him If you don't have it don't sell it. When the stuff arrived it was crappily made. Sounds like the same guy.

    Good luck with pursuing this. I will look through my info tommorow and see if this s the same guy an I will send you a PM with his info.

    [size="1"][ November 10, 2005, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Murphy ][/size]
    \"I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree<br />And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made<br />nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee<br />and live alone in the bee-loud glade.\"<br />-- WB Yeats

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,081

    Post

    I could be wrong but there is someone from this site from Rome Georgia. I had thought it was the same guy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fremont, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    695

    Post

    A simple directory search (here on Beesource) shows that there are three registered users from Rome, GA. I'd be willing to bet a gallon of my finest that it isn't one of them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,081

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    How did you get the text(isn't) in bold????

    I did look at the guy I might of thought is was, and now figure I was wrong.

    Maybe someone Rome on this site can give you some insight or any needed information.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,732

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    I bought a few books from this guy about a year ago and he ship seems like the next day, guest I got lucky, I had been seeing he has been selling alot of queen rearing stuff lately, the only reason I havent bought anything else from this guy is because he has very few - if any pictures on what he is selling, I like pictures for some reason. sorry to hear your misfortune.

    [size="1"][ November 10, 2005, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: TwT ][/size]
    Ted

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,183

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    Bjornbee.........

    To make it bold use [ B ] then words [ /B ] Omit the spaces I included. And SHAZAM its bold.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Francisco Eastbay, CA
    Posts
    203

    Post

    [img]redface.gif[/img]

    [size="1"][ November 10, 2005, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Murphy ][/size]
    \"I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree<br />And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made<br />nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee<br />and live alone in the bee-loud glade.\"<br />-- WB Yeats

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,183

    Post

    We need to be careful tossing names around here unless we are darn sure......... No believe and think. Bummer if it isn't him.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Francisco Eastbay, CA
    Posts
    203

    Wink

    "We need to be careful tossing names around here unless we are darn sure"

    Sundance, I have his email address that he sent to me from eBay and it is the same as his profile on this site. I just did a search for the email address on this site. I was positive I was refering to the same person because I did my research. I was just passing this info along so Tim can contact him to resolve his issue. I edited out the name in the last post.
    At first I was p***** off but when I thought about it I saw your point. I was just plumb mad about what I recieved. The mini nucs were so poorly made, roughly hacked joints, tops were all warped. I could'nt even use them they were in that bad a condition I would have had to remake tops and pull nails to straighten the boxes. I believe people should be warned so that they know in advance from whom, and what they are buying so they can make their own minds up. I hope you also see my POV. I was brought up to treat others as I wanted to be treated. I have made plenty of mistakes in my life but, I have allways tried to make them right.

    [size="1"][ November 10, 2005, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Murphy ][/size]
    \"I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree<br />And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made<br />nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee<br />and live alone in the bee-loud glade.\"<br />-- WB Yeats

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,183

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    Murphy......... I totally understand.

    I was referring to the believe and think stuff. After your second post I see that you have nailed the person down via email addresses.

    Sharing info when you have your kind of proof is fine in my eyes. Posting the sellers ebay ID is a great help and public info.

    After reviewing his feedback I am guessing he won't last long on ebay. Even some of his positive feedback was not so good.

    Too often buyers are hesitant to leave negative feedback in fear of "retalitory" negative from the seller.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    North Texas, USA
    Posts
    61

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    "Too often buyers are hesitant to leave negative feedback in fear of "retalitory" negative from the seller"

    I've been trading on ebay for about 5 years
    and this "holding for ransom" of the positive feedback is one of my pet peeves. When folks win and pay, they should get + feedback when payment is recieved.

    On the flip side of that, most negatives seem to always come from people who are new to ebay trading and are to lazy to read the whole
    description and shipping conditions.
    “It is only as the intelligence of man moves along harmoniously with<br />the laws of Nature, that any improvement can be expected.”<br /><br />G. M. Doolittle

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Point Pleasant, PA
    Posts
    5

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    I just got back to check for responses. Thanks to all. Kieren and Bruce, What a great example of civil discourse. You both show the character and conscience that is apparently deficient in the person we are discussing. I was confident that anyone with a history would recognize the chap by combining his home with the phrase "queen rearing."
    Dave: My sentiments as well, except I'd allow that he might be a member, for business connections, but not a community
    member. Perhaps pointing people to his Ebay listings.
    Ted: Yeah, it seems like he didn't develop issues-about shipping, anyway- until fairly recently. Clearly, the rationale for preferring pictures is further supported by Murphy's post. Your only reason for not buying other stuff from him might be the best way to approach the majority of transactions. Like personal ads-pictures are one hell of a filter; who wants a pig in a poke?
    I couldn't resist that.
    Bruce:I did use a credit card, and thank you for bringing that up. I'm aware of that solution, but I've been dragging my feet on the whole thing so far. I'm going to keep working on this, Maybe try Murphy's approach. I admit I am a litle uncomfortable with the thought of daily phone "harassment," but it's justified- he's shown me how he apparently prefers to be treated.
    Finally, Man O'War: I vigorously agree with you. The (idealistic)purpose of feedback is to provide everyone with tools to evaluate the performance of others, and decide if anything presented is relevant to doing business. Therefore accuracy and timeliness are paramount.
    It is absolutely one's duty, and personal responsibility, to be fully informed of the seller's terms, as well as all the rules for transactions.
    I take full responsibility for not being mindful of time limits to complain to Ebay or Paypal, and don't demand exceptions because "I'm Tim Moran," and I'm special. But I'm gonna nag 'em a little more just for fun. One little thing,
    though. As I understand, Ebay owns Paypal. Yet, Ebay has a 60 day limit, while Paypal has 45 days. Maybe there's a credit-related reason, or some other nebulous business/legal thing, or simply the way things developed. I just get curious about all fine print applications. Maybe it's from scrutinizing all the account update brochures from credit card companies, where one is informed, for instance, that "..we may raise your APR to the delinquency rate if you are late X times with payment to us, or to any other creditor.
    As far as dealing with this seller, we communicated by email a couple of times, and he said there was no problem, what with the heat and all; and he needed a really big box for my stuff. I think he answered me 2 or 3 times, then he went cold. I wasn't really aroused until the box thing, which was the last email he sent. But there I was, picturing a slighly disorganized guy who might have gotten a lot of orders lately and is having problems keeping up. He threw in a little chit-chat about the heat, and swapping queens etc. I wasn't going to use the stuff this year (I didn't tell him that) so I didn't have a sense of urgency that kept this in my attention a lot. Boo-hoo, I know, quit rationalizing. I should be on him like flowers on wallpaper. Actually, I do have a sense that things got ahead of him. Not too organized, probably crap all over the shop. His desk and business records I don't even want to picture, probably as sloppy as his workmanship. Throw in procrastination, and we're all screwed. Which leads me to think that Murphy has the right approach. He is only going to react to those who won't leave him alone, if he reacts at all. I reckon I should start reminding him about my stuff, frequently.
    It feels good to get a rant on,thanks for listening. But after venting, it's too easy to lose the fire. I don't think I'm gonna let it go this time.
    Murphy,it would be great to hear from you by PM about his guy, and maybe share stories of the Emerald Isle.
    Thanks again to all.
    Tim
    Beat their game pads into hivetools.<br />Embrace curiousity.

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