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Thread: wild bee's????

  1. #1
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    If bee's have been around about a couple million years with-out the help of man,how come they are dying out in the wild in our lifetime?

  2. #2
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    Because man invented ships, planes, and international
    trade, thus giving pests (like varroa) a chance
    to move from their native habitats (where, in
    the case of varroa, there were no European
    honeybees) to new habitats.

    All the pests we have (tracheal mites, varroa,
    SHB, you name it...) came from overseas, and
    most would have been obscure footnotes read
    only by entomologists if left in their native
    habitats.

  3. #3
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    Honeybees did become extinct before here in the Americas... thousands of years ago. But fortunately, bees exist on so many islands, continents, etc., that it's hard to ever get rid of them across the globe. And, bees have found a way to exist even with mites. I don't know if they (the bees) stop the brood cycle, or the more aggressive hives remain, but somehow the russian strain has found a way to survive better.

    I am certain that we will eventually learn to quit depending on chemicals, and learn to breed survivors here in the Americas. All those other great traits are meaningless in a race of bee if they can't survive. Survival should be most important, then followed by whatever else you like.

  4. #4
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    There are many people finding and rasing the survivors.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #5
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    > Honeybees did become extinct before here in
    > the Americas... thousands of years ago.

    Sadly, there is no evidence of this, but there
    is evidence of every other animal that lived
    here, including the mega fauna.

  6. #6
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    The oldest tropical honeybee, Cretotrigona prisca is found in late Cretaceous (Maastrichtian) ambers of New Jersey.
    The late Cretaceous tropical honeybees preserved in amber are almost identical to their modern relatives [img]smile.gif[/img]

  7. #7
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    > The oldest tropical honeybee, Cretotrigona prisca...

    Where did you read this?

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  9. #9
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    Fascinating! Why is varroa (and other dieases) more predominant here than in Europe and Russia?

  10. #10
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    >Why is varroa (and other dieases) more predominant here than in Europe and Russia?

    What makes you think that?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  11. #11
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    Phoenix, thanks for the cite to this fascinating article. -Dan

  12. #12
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    Not looking to start another long winded exchange here. However, the article does not call this bee, a honey bee or classify it as a honey bee (Apis).
    It does however, relate this bee to other stingless bees (Meliponini, Melipona, Trigona).
    This would be like Bumble bees to Honey bees, yes they are both bees. However, don't try starting your honey business with Bumblebees, you won't be happy with the harvest.

  13. #13
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    Well, maybe I need to do a little more research on what's going on with bees on a global scale but it seems like if bees honeybees once existed here and were wiped out. Introduced again only to be threatened once again. It just seems like the US has a bigger problem with diseases than Europe and Russia. Don't they? You don't have to answer that actually, I can do some research online.

  14. #14
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    >It just seems like the US has a bigger problem with diseases than Europe and Russia. Don't they? You don't have to answer that actually, I can do some research online.

    Varroa and Tracheal mites are pretty much a gloal problem. A few isolated islands have kept them out, but most of the main continents are infested. The Europeans have been battling the Varroa and the Tracheam mites a lot longer than us, but the methods that are now failing here failed there years ago.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  15. #15
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    >It just seems like the US has a bigger problem....

    IMO, that's it in a nutshell. I imagine it just seems that way to us. I wonder if Europeans think they have the bigger problem

  16. #16
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    Were there and are there bees native to the Americas? Yes, but not the honeybee.

    The Honeybee that is kept today was NOT and is NOT native to the Americas.

    The article sited above is about a stingless bee, NOT A HONEYBEE.

    The reason why maple sap was boiled and made into syrup and sugar by Native Ameicans was to sweeten foods because THERE WAS NO HONEY.

  17. #17
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    Well said, MountainCamp.

  18. #18
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    "EXCERPT FROM THE HISTORY OF MEXICO by Abbe D. Francesco Saverio Clavigero (1731-1787)

    Translated from original Italian in 1806 by Chas Cullen, Esq.

    Excerpt from Book 1, of Valume 1.

    There are at least six different kinds of bees. The first is the same as the common bee of Europe, with which it agrees, not only in size, shape and color, but also in its disposition and manners, and in the qualities of its honey and wax.

    The second species, which differs from the first only in having no sting, is the bee of Yucatan and Chiapa, which makes the fine, clear honey of ESTABENTUN, of an aromatic flavor, superior to that of all other kinds of honey with which we are acquainted.The honey is taken from them six times a year, that is once in every other month; but the best is that which is got in November, being made from a white flower like Jessamine, which blooms in September, called in that country ESTABENTUN,from which the honey has derived its name. The honey of Estabentun is in high estimation with the English and French, who touch at the ports of Yucatan; and I have known the French of Guarico to buy it sometimes for the purpose of sending it as a present to the king.

    The third species resembles in its form, the winged ants, but is smaller than the common bee, and without a sting. This insect, which is peculiar to warm and temperate climates, forms nests, in size and shape resembling sugar loaves, and even sometimes greatly exceeding these in size, which are suspended from rocks, or from trees, and particularly from the oak. The populousness of these hives is much greater than those of the common bee. The nymphs of this bee, which are eatable, are white and round, like a pearl. The honey is of a greyish color, but of a fine flavor.

    The fourth species is a yellow bee, smaller than the common one, but like it, furnished with a sting. Its honey is not equal to those already mentioned.

    The fifth is a small bee furnished with a sting, which constructs hives of an orbicular form, in subterranean cavities; and the honey is sour and somewhat bitter.

    The TLALPIPPROLLI, which is the sixth species, is black and yellow, of the size of the common bee, but has no sting.

    WASP

    The XICOTLI or Xicote, is a thick black wasp, with a yellow belly, which makes a very sweet honey, in holes made by it in walls. It is provided with a strong sting, which gives a very painful wound.The Cuicalmiahautl has likewise a sting, but whether it makes honey or not, we do not know."
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  19. #19
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    The article was sited as proof that there was a honeybee, similar to the current honeybee being kept today. It did not classify the bee as a honeybee, nor make any relationship to today's honeybee.
    I have never read any accounts of North American tribes keeping bees or using honey. I have read of the local tribes using maple sap to produce syrup and "sugar".
    Having done both sapping and beekeeping, even with today’s evaporators and modern advantages, beekeeping is a lot easier than sapping. Three hundred years ago, getting stung to get a gallon of sweetener vs. collecting and boiling sap at a ration of 45 – 55 gallons to 1 gallon of syrup would have been welcomed.
    The time frame of the author / text puts it 200 years after colonization. The text does not discuss the origin of these bees.

  20. #20
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    Let me just say it and be done with it.

    The Honey Bee was brought to the western
    hemisphere by people from Europe. Prior to
    that, there was NOTHING EVEN CLOSE to a
    honey bee anywhere on this continent, from
    the Arctic Circle down to Cape Horn.

    Yes, I know all about Dee Lusby's claims.
    I don't buy even a tiny bit of them, and
    neither does anyone else with any credentials,
    or anyone who simply checks their facts.
    Dee says so many things that one simply has
    to listen, because statisically, she is bound
    to say something that can be proven true sooner
    or later. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    But why any of this would matter, I have no idea.

    The breeds of bee in common circulation today
    are very different from your grandfather's bees
    anyway. "Everyone" has AI equipment now, and
    one can make just about any crossbreed or mix
    one might wish, using genetics that come from
    far and wide, resulting in bees that could
    have never developed "naturally" due to mere
    distance between the breeds combined.

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