Calling all Alabama beekeepers: No comb law...yes or no?

[fatscher]

Would like to hear from anyone regarding Alabama's no comb law:

Section 2-14-4(a) "...All shipments or movements of honeybees into the State of Alabama shall be in combless packages only, and shipments or movements of honeybees into this state in violation of the requirements of this section shall be unlawful."

Section 2-14-5 - "Shipment, movement, etc., into state of used beekeeping equipment or supplies. It shall be unlawful to ship, move or otherwise transport into this state for delivery within the state any previously used honey containers or any hives, combs, frames, appliances, supers or other beekeeping equipment or supplies which have been previously used in the keeping or raising of bees..."

This is designed to prevent the spread of disease caused by migratory beekeepers moving through the state enroute to Ca or Fla.

But it also hurts small scale beekeepers and hobbyists who conciously try hard to keep their bees disease free. Let me have the state apiarist inspect my bees and if they're diseased, then I'll not cross the state line, but don't have a state law which hurts the guy or girl trying to do right.

I feel sorry for the Vermont beekeepers who imported southern packages and got an outbreak of small hive beetles, previously unknown there.

[sqkcrk]

Is this new law or old law?

Otherwise, how do you know that it was designed to prevent the spread of disease caused by migratory beekeepers moving through the state? I bet that there has never been a varifiable case of disease that can be traced to a migratory load of beehives traveling through a state. Unless you count tose who set down in those states. Which is different than traveling through.

Does Alabama actually not let beekeepers move their colonies into and out of the state of Alabama? If there are any beekeeping operations of size in the state I find that hard to believe. If Alabama is their state of origin, how could they not allow them back in?

[Tia]

I doubt that any of this has much to do with SHB. I haven't purchassed new bees in at least five years and run my bees on foundationless. I'm way out in the boonies, the nearest beek being at least 10 miles away, and yet my girls are slam full of SHB.

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

Similar laws in Alaska have not prevented the spread of disease into/throughout the state. The bees, themselves, are the major carriers of disease spoor. Parasites ride on/in living bees. Virus and other illness are carried in the gut and other parts of bee bodies. As has been shown in several studies, symptoms do not have to be present for the disease to be present. Just as with any other animal.

Stopping the traffic in hive components and comb into or through the state will not impede disease in any way.

Stopping the importation (but not thru-traffic) of used comb _MIGHT_ reduce the rate of pesticide death due to buildup in was. It's unlikely, though, since AL sustains a large amount of agriculture which imports and deploys pesticides directly.

[fatscher]

Is this new law or old law? Otherwise, how do you know that it was designed to prevent the spread of disease caused by migratory beekeepers moving through the state?

I bet that there has never been a varifiable case of disease that can be traced to a migratory load of beehives traveling through a state.

I'll call your bet. I believe the same thing. I was told by Dennis Barclift, the state apairist (a very nice gentleman, by the way) that it was designed to prevent the spread of disease caused by migratory beekeepers

Does Alabama actually not let beekeepers move their colonies into and out of the state of Alabama? If there are any beekeeping operations of size in the state I find that hard to believe. If Alabama is their state of origin, how could they not allow them back in?

Bee-lieve it or not, it's true...oh boy how I wish it weren't. I have 20 hives at the Tennessee border that I can't bring in because of the law. Am I pouting? Yessirree!

I doubt that any of this has much to do with SHB. I haven't purchassed new bees in at least five years and run my bees on foundationless. I'm way out in the boonies, the nearest beek being at least 10 miles away, and yet my girls are slam full of SHB.

I spoke with Jim Tew at the state meeting, and Jim is of the feeling that this law goes back to the early 1970s, 25 years before any reported cases of SHB, so yes, I think you're right.

Similar laws in Alaska have not prevented the spread of disease into/throughout the state. The bees, themselves, are the major carriers of disease spoor. Parasites ride on/in living bees. Virus and other illness are carried in the gut and other parts of bee bodies. As has been shown in several studies, symptoms do not have to be present for the disease to be present. Just as with any other animal.

Stopping the traffic in hive components and comb into or through the state will not impede disease in any way.

PREACH ON BROTHER, PREACH ON I tried using this logic and was shot down, the Alabama Farmers Federation State Bee and Honey Committee is a very strong force to reckon with.

Here's the website of Alabama Farmers Federation State Bee and Honey Committee: http://www.alfafarmers.org/commodities/bee_honey.phtml

Goals of the Alabama Bee and Honey Producers for 2010 include:

--Secure research money for honey production, marketing and pollination.
--Keep no-comb law in effect.
--Increase current funding for the existing Alabama A&M University research program into the percent yield increase in lint and seed effect of honeybee cross pollination of BT cotton, and expand the program to include other crops such as soybeans, fruits, vegetables, etc., by other Land Grant universities.
--Work closely with Alabama fruit and vegetables growers to determine the issues that need to be resolved.
--Continue support of anti-dumping suit.
--Support naming queen bee as state insect.

You can write Mr. Adamson, and express your disappointment at this very constraining law.

[KQ6AR]

Its probably an old American Foulbrood Law.

[fish_stix]

Too bad! You're not only fighting politicians, but your own state bee organization. Ignorance, tempered with stupidity, is pretty much incurable, no matter which state you're in.

[fish_stix]

Sorry. Doubled up again!

[brac]

So I guess ther are no crops there that need pollenation? I know that this year over 68,000 hives came into Maine. That doesn't say anything about Nuc's brought in.

[Bens-Bees]

Such a law, if enforced, would destroy agriculture in that state. It wouldn't just hurt it, it would destroy it. If this isn't a brand new law, then I guarantee they don't enforce it.

[sqkcrk]

I spoke with Jim Tew at the state meeting, and Jim is of the feeling that this law goes back to the early 1970s, 25 years before any reported cases of SHB, so yes, I think you're right.

Did Jim tell you about moving bees from Ohio to Alabama and back again in the 1980s? Apparently there is a way around the law. Perhaps by ignoring it? Not that I'm suggesting anyone do so.

[fatscher]

Did Jim tell you about moving bees from Ohio to Alabama and back again in the 1980s? Apparently there is a way around the law. Perhaps by ignoring it? Not that I'm suggesting anyone do so.

Jim was extremely middle of the road, and took great pains to illustrate his neutrality when we talked about it. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to be drawn into the controversy if I didn't have to be. Jim has emotional attachments to Alabama, because he's a native son. Ohio State pays his mortgage (assuming he has one) but he's immensely loyal to the good ole boy mentality of "The Heart of Dixie", thus he never expressed any opinion different than the law.

But to answer your question, no, Jim never mentioned a thing about it...

[fatscher]

Too bad! You're not only fighting politicians, but your own state bee organization. Ignorance, tempered with stupidity, is pretty much incurable, no matter which state you're in.

Yep, very true. But the thing is, I'm sort of hard-headed too. Ask my mom...there was no more determined kid than me, and she used to call me "hard-head" because I just wouldn't let it go. I'm a fighter and a bulldog. When my jaws lock down on the flesh of the bull I just don't let go. Ask my mentor, winevines, she'll tell you I'm about as the most persistent cuss you'll ever meet.

So I guess ther are no crops there that need pollenation? I know that this year over 68,000 hives came into Maine. That doesn't say anything about Nuc's brought in.

Well your neighbor to the south, Vermont, got packages this spring, and SURRRPIZE!!!!! lo and behold there was shb in them, tsk tsk. First time the Green Mountain folk had seen the little black buggers, and I'm not talking about the flies, neither

Such a law, if enforced, would destroy agriculture in that state. It wouldn't just hurt it, it would destroy it. If this isn't a brand new law, then I guarantee they don't enforce it.

Thank you, my fellow Tennessee brother! Totally agree!!! I told Dennis that Mike Studer himself (well in form only) had inspected my bees when they crossed the state line from Virginia at Bristol. It didn't faze him. There's an ultra-conservative thinking in this state that is self-destructive. Ironic that the next day, I drove through Selma Alabama to visit my college son. You can imagine what I was thinking.

I'd like to start a campaign called FREE ALABAMA. I need support from fellow Alabamians. Hope to find some.

[hpm08161947]

So I suppose there are no migratory beeks in Alabama... come to think of it I can not think of any. Are there no crops that require pollination...ie... squash, cucumbers, pumpkins, etc? Guess that could all be done by intrastate beeks. I am surprised that the Ag guys do not have more influence - they are more than a powerful lobby in this state.

[brac]

I thought I posted earlier, but I don't see it. Must have got side tracked.

This year over 70,000 hives came into Maine to do pollination, is there nothing that grows there that needs bees?

[suttonbeeman]

While I usually do my best to obey the law, I hate stupidity and political red tape. So here is my solution....Go load your bees and move them in...just keep your mouth shut...noone will know but you....If inspector ask a yearlater....those were splits I made.

[fatscher]

...just keep your mouth shut....

I'm trying to... it's just so hard to do. My wife tells me to shut my mouth but then she complains I don't listen to her

[llang]

I suspect a simple federal lawsuit would result in the state law being overturned... Bees are clearly very very important to interstate commerce and only the US Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce.. however every law is "legal" until challenged in the courts...

[fatscher]

The hate mail is rolling in on me from some of my Alabama beekeeper "brothers".

One guy told me to get my facts straight, then proceeded to tell me how I should spend my idol [sic] time working at a veterans home here in Huntsville, rather than work to change this law. But he never set me straight on the facts!!! guffaw!

In fact, NO ONE has offered ANY facts on this stupid (oops did I say that out loud?) state law.

So I went digging a little, and here's the micro info on what I could find. P.S. Did I mention that no one here wants to talk about it?

In the Alabama codes, Title 2 Section 14, there appears a four digit number along with a series of other numbers like: "(Acts 1965, No. 794, p. 1488). Does this mean the code was enacted in 1965? I did learn from googling Harry Fulton the following factoid...

In 1970 MBA (Mississippi Beekeepers Association) proposed a no-comb law which would prohibit movement of bees on combs into the state. MBA consisted of mostly native commercial package and queen producers who opposed the newer and fast developing migratory beekeeping industry consisting of mostly non-native beekeepers. The legislation was not enacted. Such conflicts of interest between the two groups have hampered enactment of new laws and regulations since 1970. A History of Entomology in Mississippi, 1989, Mississippi Entomological Association

I do know Alabama has never been a honey production or pollination state, rather the predominant history has been in package and queen production.

A beekeeper local to Alabama wrote me stating: "Unfortunately, the newer generation in these businesses sees quicker profits and easier money to sell off the farm (Bee farm) for subdivisions. That has reduced the number of large queen and package beekeepers in the state. The border law situation was set up to protect that industry."

Supposedly, and I am still awaiting the facts and figures from the Alabama dept pf agriculture, Alabama has lagged the other contiguous 47 states in getting all new diseases and pest by 3 or 4 years, so (they claim) the law works right? Not clear at all how accurate that is...it's what I'm told. Alabama claims they've had no reported cases of AFB resistant to Oxytetracycline.

While the lag in pest intro was the case with Small Hive Beetle, they were first discovered in the middle of the state first. That was a mystery for many regional inspectors until they examined where they appeared -- TRUCK STOPS. I mean, duhhhh!

So here's a state law, with a the border like a sieve because interstate transport on federal highways cannot be interfered with. So why the law???
It's just ignorant madness.

Honest no-comb proponents will admit the law has, in fact, retarded the growth of beekeeping in this state. South Alabama is warm enough for migratory beekeepers to over winter. If that were allowed, it would create growth in the commercial beekeeping industry and add income to the state.

But many believe loosening the law would infect the state industry with all sorts of diseases and pests since migratory beekeeping from outside (I suppose migratory beekeeping from the inside is less stressful???) is very stressful to the bees.

I know, back in 2000, the president of the Alabama Beekeepers Association was offered a huge bribe, if he would help this out of state migratory beekeeper to get the law changed. He double crossed the briber and argued to legistlators in Montgomery to KEEP the law.

Many Alabamans are deeply loyal to this law, and really don't know why they are, but they know they are.

[markmaster]

Interesting thread -- although I am a small-scale, fairly new beek here in central Alabama, this issue affects me in some ways. Have you spoken with Ted Kretschmann yet? He has always seemed pretty knowledgeable regarding the political aspects of beekeeping in this state. I plan to do a bit of digging on this (many thanks for the excellent references in your posts), but in the meantime - and this is ignorant opinion only, subject to change - I'm thinking that some of the resistance you are encountering may be reduced if, instead of merely calling for the repeal of the Code, you could offer a replacement or a restatement of it. No point in leaving a gaping hole in the few legal protections we have, right? We have a slate of new legislators in Bama, who probably need some new legislation to introduce, if for no other reason than to convince future voters that they have "done something" -- contact your area legislator, educate him/her on the issue, and see if that generates a change.

Thanks for providing me with a bit of fresh brain-food ---