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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
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    1,725

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    I know the weavers have good bees maybe some of the best and there are good people and do there best, but i just dont want to take that chance on my first year,one day I might try some weaver bees but right now the only mean thing i have in my life i can't get rid of so easy (wife), thats enough meanest for 1 person to put up with lol

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    san antonio.texas USA
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    488

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    Here are a few of view points I wanted to share.
    A. You can get defensive bees anywhere. Particularly with a race mix. I have seen some very defensive EHB hives. When bees are mean I requeen.
    B. A hive can turn defensive any time even with the same queen. Example: A queen mates with several drones. Perhaps A EHB queen will mate with 1 EHB drone and 5 AHB drones. She might start to lay using the EHB drone sperm sac and later get into the AHB sperm. Her first offspring would be pure EHB, later, to some extent, AHB.
    C. I think the vast majority of AHB will be spread thru "hitchhiking" on various forms of transportation, natural progression, and migratory operations. Not thru a queen producer using drone saturation.
    D. AHB can be very defensive regardless of colony size. Just because you do not have a large colony, do not assume it will be gentle. AHB are unpredictable. Sometimes an AHB colony can be as gentle as a EHB colony and sometimes the same colony can be so defensive that they make a beeyard a war zone.
    E. Maintaining EHB hives in a AHB zone is quite possible. You will occationally have to deal with a defensive hive.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post



    [This message has been edited by magnet-man (edited October 28, 2004).]

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

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    >She might start to lay using the EHB drone sperm sac and later get into the AHB sperm. Her first offspring would be pure EHB, later, to some extent, AHB.

    I have heard this stated as fact before and I have also heard it to the contrary, but from bee researchers. It does not make sence to me that the sperm would not be mixed as it is fluid and it does mix.

    The only time I have seen drastic changes in appearances in a hive is when I see a change of queens heading the colony.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    san antonio.texas USA
    Posts
    488

    Post

    Bullseye. You may be right. I will read more on the subject. I was under the impression that that the drone sperm could remain somewhat seperate by a mucus coating supplied by the drone.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    medesto,indiana,usa
    Posts
    257

    Post

    As long as the hive doesn't requeen it self the AHB genes shouldn't spread even if you buy a queen thats mated with a AHB drone.But its like a time bomb ready to happen

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
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    2,264

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    Spread of AHB genes:

    1. EHB queen mated with AHB drones:
    a) Meaner colony than EHB
    b) EHB drones are produced (unfertilized eggs)
    c) Queens produced from this colony will be partially Africanized. (Do not let this colony produce queens.)
    d) Daughter queens will produce partially AHB drones.

    As long as this colony does not produce a queen the AHB genes can’t spread. Keeping colonies from swarming is “Hard Work”.

    2. AHB queen mated with EHB drones:
    a) Meaner colony than EHB
    b) AHB drones are produced (unfertilized eggs)
    c) Queens produced from this colony will be partially Africanized. (Do not let this colony produce queens.)
    d) Daughter queens will produce partially AHB drones.

    This colony will ALWAYS spread AHB genes because of the drones.


    Now lets assume a queen breeder in an AHB area did DNA testing of the offspring from their selected breeder queens and the test are negative. The daughter queens produced from the breeder queens will be AHB gene free.

    Now assume that every time a daughter queen mates there is a 2% chance the drone will be Africanized. What is the likely hood of her mating with an AHB drone if she mates 10 times? Answer 20 percent. Ten percent of all eggs in theory will be Africanized. Said another way there is a 10 percent chance any daughter 2 queens will be partially Africanized and all drones will be partially Africanized. These drones are now available to mate with EHB virgins in your area. This is the cycle starting over again, but this time it is in your area.


  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
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    1,725

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    mag-net man now thats laying it down where even rookie's like me can even understand.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
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    2,264

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    Thanks Twt.

    I am in the process of reading The African Honey Bee by Spivak,Fletcher and Breed from 1991. It is basically a collection of scientific literature on the Africanized honeybee. A number of the authors are from South and Central America and at the end of each chapter the literature cited in the chapter is listed. Chapter three has 132 unique papers cited. It takes 6 ½ pages to list them all.

    It is hard but interesting reading if you like technical information. If you don’t like technical reading it makes a good sedative. Out of 435 pages there are only 5 pictures.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
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    1,725

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    Thanks guys for all the comments and info, but you got to remember that everyone that buys bees from Drapers Super Bee will be geting bees from B. Weaver, but i would still like to try there bees atlest once. they got some good-ones but watch out if you get them mean-nuns. I seen Mr.B Weaver on TV the other night and the show was about AHB, he said that if they find a agressive hive they change the queen out and all is well then.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    oneonta al.
    Posts
    848

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    <If they find a agressive hive they change the queen out and all is well then>.Don't we all? Wonder what they replace it with? another one of their queen's?just keep changing until they get one that's not got the AHB genes.that don't do a thing for me.>>>>Mark

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
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    1,725

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    Well mark , you got a good point.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Utica, NY, USA
    Posts
    50

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    Please keep in mind there are two queen producers with the last name of Weaver, and they are geographically close to each other. Most or all of the comments seem to be pointing toward B. Weaver, headed by Danny Weaver.

    In the community of queen producers, Danny is acknowledged as a top tier marketing guy. Nuff said?

    For as long as there has been AHB in the US, there have been complaints about agressivness in bees from B. Weaver after supercedure. Many believe it is impossible that AHB genes are not there.

    Sure, the way to handle overly agressive hives is to requeen. But a large number of those who buy queens from B. Weaver, in response to the marketing hype, are hobbyists. For many of those it is just about impossible to requeen an overly agressive hive. They can't find queens well; they can't take the 10-20 stings; etc.

    If B. Weaver, or any queen producer, had bees resistant to varroa the world would beat a path to their door, the magazines would be full of articles attesting to verification, etc. That is not happening.

    BEE CAREFUL!

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
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    Well I am about half way through The African Honey Bee by Spivak, Fletcher and Breed and it is quite depressing. It seems that the African bee is quite good about removing any EHB genes. Apparently at the front of the invasion you do have hybridized bees, but away from the front you end up with basically African bees with little or no EHB genes. While this seems to defy logic there are some reasons for it. They are rather long winded and complicated.

    If there is enough interest, I will scan the relevant pages and post them on the web.

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