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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Angry

    Last week I could not get a brick shipped without something going wrong. It started two months ago when I placed an order with Browning Cut Stock. I called and ordered forty mediums, no problem, until they didn't come. Three weeks went by before I got a hold on them, now the answer machine says they are taking orders for July! I left a message and he returned my call a few days later and told me to send a check first and he would ship right away. OK, (he could have told me that before), so I send a check wait two weeks and still no boxes. Another call and another call back, no tracking numbers yet but he will ship right away. I need boxes on for the flow, not still in shipping...

    Better bee sent nuc boxes, and just like the time before, some of the lids are broken. They are a fine company and sent replacements for the ones UPS broke. I received my replacements already, life is ok.

    Fed-Ex brought Permacomb. They beat the hell out of the boxes, but PC is tough and only a couple of the end bars are bent. I can live with that too.

    Then Estes Freight Line brought my long awaited eighteen frame extracter from Brushy Mountain. I could not wait to get it as I need to free up some supers for the flow. I went down to get it from the truck line instead of waiting for them to bring it out. The legs were in a narrow box strapped to the outside of the large box which was on a skid. It appeared to be bent, so I asked that we look at it before loading it in my truck. We opened the skinny box which showed damage and the legs were fine so we loaded it into the truck and I signed that I received it and went home.

    When I got home I started to unwrap the extracter. I took out the legs and opened the large box. **** ! The tub was caved in from the legs being shoved into the box! The tub is crushed so bad the basket won't turn inside. So I took a couple of pictures and e-mailed Brushy Mt. They said that once the trucking company took it they had no more responsibility in the matter.

    I contacted the freight line and now they say that since I signed off on it and removed it from the property they will not consider any damage as their fault. I am stuck with a useless nine hundred dollar extracter.

    Lesson learned? Never sign for a delivery until after you unpack it in front of the driver or you are screwed if there is any concealed damage.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Post

    Bullseye Bill,
    I think it was you who tipped me that Mann Lake had some scratch/dent specials on a 20 frame. I almost ordered one but chickened out when they wanted $65 for a pallet and $117 for shipping. Now it seems like a pallet would be a good idea. $65 seems a little pricey though. I guess you wouldn't want to call them because you already have a "dent" special. My guess is you'll take it to a body shop and get it working. Good luck

    Dickm

    [This message has been edited by dickm (edited May 25, 2004).]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Williston, NC, USA
    Posts
    1,779

    Post

    As a legal secretary of 40 (yikes!) years, and in light of the great monetary loss ($900 is a lot of money to me), I'd check into suing them through small claims court. Technically, they have you dead to rights, but you can usually put the squeeze on them and get something out of the deal. Go to your county's courthouse and see the clerk. They will guide you through how to go about it without an attorney, so you don't have to pay a shyster's exorbitant fees! You'll find that a lawsuit will usually scare them into refunding at least some of your money. Good luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Grifton, NC
    Posts
    1,302

    Post

    I once bought a pallet of tractor parts from Illinois to NC for $100. When CF(now out of business)delivered it, the freight bill was $398! I called the terminal manager and told him I would not pay it. I told him I wanted the highest standard discount class he had. He gave it to me. The freight only cost me $119.

    Point is, call the terminal manager and discuss it with him. If that does no good, call the area manager, right on up the line. I guess I'm wondering why the thing wasn't insured. Nevertheless, there should be a provision for hidden damage. I mean if they had to pay their driver to watch each shipment unpacked and assembled and inspected, they wouldn't get any freight delivered. Estes is a big outfit with deep pockets. I'd negotiate the damage first. I used to run a medical supply warehouse and we had this sort of situation all the time. They have a system for OSD(over, short and damaged)claims.

    If Brushy Mt. has an account with Estes and ships regularly, it seems as if they may be able to exert a little pressure from their end. They are right in saying once they give possesion to the carrier, the carrier becomes liable. It also seems like a satisfied customer(with repeat business and friends)is an important factor, so they should not have such a cavalier attitude.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Round Top, New York - Northern Catskill Mtns.
    Posts
    1,895

    Post

    "When I got home I started to unwrap the extracter. I took out the legs and opened the large box. **** ! The tub was caved in from the legs being shoved into the box! The tub is crushed so bad the basket won't turn inside. So I took a couple of pictures and e-mailed Brushy Mt. They said that once the trucking company took it they had no more responsibility in the matter."

    If it was shipped FOB shipping point Bushy Mtn. is NOT reponsible for in transit damage due to mis-handling of the box.
    But, it sounds to me like is was a packing problem at Brushy Mtn. and NOT the trucking company's mis-handling of the box that caused the damage.

    Did the box show any sign of damage when you recieved it?

    If not, I would go back to Brushy Mtn. and lay it on the line. You either stand up for your equipment and the way you package items or I will no longer be buying anything from your company. I will also be passing the word around of this situation to every beekeeper I can.

    Since you have access to all of the bee keepers on this as well as the other online sites, this little problem can mushroom for them.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hookstown PA USA
    Posts
    581

    Post

    Let us all know how it turns out. I for one would be happy to write an email to Brushy Mountain stating that I will no longer purchase from them on the basis of how they treat you. I haven't bought $900 worth but if 5 $200 buyers stop then they may think twice.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,299

    Post

    Sorry to hear about the bum deal BB.You should casually mention to brushy Mountain that 1400 beekeepers on this website are keenly interested in how this turns out!And that time is of the essence!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Freedom, PA USA
    Posts
    222

    Post

    I would think it should be insured - at least somewhat - thru the shipping company. But those companies aren't willing to give it up easy. I had a problem with items damaged in transit when I shipped thru fedex. At first they denied my claim, but after about a month, and a ton of calls, they reversed their decision and paid the entire claim. Just keep pushing, it may pay off.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
    Posts
    6,540

    Post

    "It started two months ago when I placed an order with Browning Cut Stock. I called and ordered forty mediums, no problem, until they didn't come. Three weeks went by before I got a hold on them, now the answer machine says they are taking orders for July!"

    I gave up on Browning. Countless phone calls not returned, nothing online, answering machine full or not working.....
    Seems like they're victims of their own success. Someone else will come along and plunk a warm body at the end of the phone, put up a website with online catalog ordering, and then match their prices. Then Browning won't be bothered with all that ringing and order taking.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Carnation, WA, USA
    Posts
    120

    Post

    "It started two months ago when I placed an order with Browning Cut Stock. I called and ordered forty mediums, no problem, until they didn't come. Three weeks went by before I got a hold on them, now the answer machine says they are taking orders for July!"

    For woodenware, I've had good service and prices from Western Bee Company located in Montana.
    http://www.westernbee.com/


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    >My guess is you'll take it to a body shop and get it working. Good luck

    That is a good idea, if all else fails I will have no choice but to do so. It is just a shame that I have paid the full price and have to settle for damaged goods.

    >You'll find that a lawsuit will usually scare them into refunding at least some of your money. Good luck.

    Another good idea, I hope it does not come to that. As yet it is still too early, I still have them looking into the claim. They may do the right thing yet.

    >If Brushy Mt. has an account with Estes and ships regularly, it seems as if they may be able to exert a little pressure from their end.

    Brushy's customer service person may have been too busy, or she was cavalier in her "not our problem" reply.

    >But, it sounds to me like is was a packing problem at Brushy Mtn. and NOT the trucking company's mis-handling of the box that caused the damage.

    Actuly the damage was on both their parts. Brushy should not have straped the legs on the side. Perhaps they do all the time and I am the lucky one, but doing so is just asking for trouble. The fact that the legs were higher than the main box gave any shifting freight in the truck leverage against the main box. I think if the legs were not straped to the big box this would never have happened. But it is the nature of packages in a truck to rub, shift and exert pressure on other packages, being it was an irregular shape contributed to the problem.

    >Did the box show any sign of damage when you recieved it?

    Yes the leg box was bent, so when we opened it up and saw they were ok, we loaded it up into my truck. It was getting late and near time for them to close, so we were both in a hurry to get me out of there. I did not see any damage to the big box, it was just rubbed up a bit and looked fine from the outside.

    > I for one would be happy to write an email to Brushy Mountain stating that I will no longer purchase from them on the basis of how they treat you.

    I appreciate that. There is a lot of power here with so many members and contributers to the forum. We should form a "prayer list" for these kinds of problems. Those of us who are regular posters would think nothing of it to send an e-mail in support of another member who gets the short end of the stick and needs a little support.


    >You should casually mention to brushy Mountain that 1400 beekeepers on this website are keenly interested in how this turns out!And that time is of the essence!

    Perhaps I should copy and forward this entire thread to them? And I will if there is no satisfaction coming forthwith. It would be nice to have a longer thread to show them our sincerity.


    >Bill If you payed with a credit card you might have some leverage.

    I will look into that, it was of no help with that usless branding iron from Brand New I tried out.

    > I guess the measure of a company is in how they solve problems.

    AMEN! Most of the companies I have dealt with have been super. It could be that they want the problem to solve itself because of the dollar value.


    >I would think it should be insured - at least somewhat - thru the shipping company.

    Yes, freight lines are self-insured, but they usually have an independent claims adjuster to keep appearances.

    >I gave up on Browning. Countless phone calls not returned, nothing online, answering machine full or not working.....
    Seems like they're victims of their own success.

    I feel your pain. I got my order from them and I've been busy gettin them glued and screwed. I like their product so I will put up with their success. With shipping the $4.40 turned into $7.00, still cheaper than anywhere else, and no anoying misplaced nail holes.

    Thanks to all of you for your ideas and words of support.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Rockford, Michigan
    Posts
    147

    Post

    I'm coming back into bees and will be putting a nice order together. I'll also consider Brushy Mtn. as a source,but first, I'd like to see how they take care of this problem. That's only part of the evaluation when doing mail order business.
    In the photography world,we have forum sites just for the evaluation of mail order photo equipment dealers. It is a valuable site indeed! Another thing is to consider your trade magazine. Magazines depend on advertisement dollars. They even accept money for ads from those that resort to unscrupulous business practices. As I've seen in the photography world, if you go to these magazine companies and explain to them that "Acme Photo Company" deals in unscrupulous business practices and you're going to boycott their magazine unless they drop the advertisement from such companies. You should find that the magazines put pressure on these companies as well, to use ethical business practices.It's very easy to see if a magazine is out strictly for advertising funds or if they are genuine in there concern and interest for the industry. As a forum, another topic titled "mail order companies" could be established for comments. This wouldn't be for just bad experiences, but for the outstanding companies that go the extra mile (if there is such a thing now a days!) to ensure your order gets to you in fine shape.
    As a group you have this hammer. Someone mentioned this group consisting of 1400 beekeepers. That's a nice potential size of business. It makes sense to me that if I were a business and my name was mentioned in a forum somewhere I'd have a concern. Now one person to absorb a $900 loss is one thing, for a business to bite the bullet and make things right, regardless if it was the carrier or poor packaging at fault, stands to gain the respect of those in the business. It usually means more business to that company!
    So I think I'll wait on sending in my order to see how things work out! Please keep us posted as to your outcome. I'm sure there are 1400 sets of eyes and ears waiting to hear the outcome also!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Stronghurst,Illinois
    Posts
    168

    Post

    Agree with you on that stainless is tough to eat with todays prices . I work with it daily as a welder .

    Just getting into beekeeping I too will be ordering a lot more supplies as time goes on . I plan to get enough hives going to retire early from welding .

    We had trouble with UPS dropped one of our small tanks while going down the road then tried to deliver it . It took awhile but they did come thru . Our boss is a pit bulldog once he gets wound . Go get em Bill .

    Watching this thread with great interest .

    Drifter

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,262

    Post

    "Sorry to hear about the bum deal BB.You should casually mention to brushy Mountain that 1400 beekeepers on this website are keenly interested in how this turns out!And that time is of the essence"!

    Te Hehe, Now that's incentive for Somebody to help us out. LOL And I do mean US. ;0)

    Cute...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    67

    Post

    Bullseye Bill,
    I know what you went through that day. I operate several businesses, one of them being a farming operation and it can be a pain at times. I am new to bee keeping. So far I really enjoy it. It's very interesting. I have a friend who is a commercial bee keeper. He has helped me get started and give me direction. (A long with you all and this website.) I plan on going commercial with my bee keeping operation.
    My friend buys a lot of products from Brushy Mountain and knows the owners personally. He makes several trips a month up there to buy supplies. I have already started spending money buying supplies from them and I will spend a lot more as I increase the number of hives. I am very interested in seeing either Brushy Mountain, Estes or both help you get this matter straightened out. First I'm going to tell my commercial bee keeper friend about what happened and ask him to speak with the owners while he is up there. Second I'm going to call the owners myself and express my concerns. Third every single member of this website should call, email or post their feelings and concerns about what happened. Some of us my be thinking...Glad it wasn't me. Well it could have happened to any of us. I think we should all pull together on this one. It's not just in Bills interest, it's in all our interest. 1400 members can make a difference. I learned a lesson a long time ago. Don't let these deliverly companies make you feel like they are in a hurry. Make them wait on you to inspect whatever it is you ordered, whether they like it or not. Once you sign for it, it's yours. "Make them wait" "Take your time" "inspect what you ordered" even if it takes 30 minutes to get it out of the boxes.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    67

    Post

    Oh one other thing. Make sure any damage is noted down it detail on the ticket before you sign it. Make sure you keep your copy.
    File a claim accordingly.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Big Grin

    I sent this link to Brushy last night and I have already gotten a reply!


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Steve Forrest" <steve@brushymountainbeefarm.com>
    To: <wvinduska@cox.net>
    Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:06 AM
    Subject: Your extractor from Brushy Mtn


    > I have just seen your email and what you wrote on the bee site. I am so
    > sorry about the damage to your extractor and we will make it good at no cost
    > to you. I will send you a new tank and you can change everything over from
    > the old extractor to the new tank. If this is ok please email me back and
    > we will ship the new tank.
    > Steve Forrest
    >
    >
    >

    HAPPY DAYS! Thanks to Steve for helping me resolve this problem, and thanks to all of you who responded and supported me.

    As you all can plainly see, Brushy Mountain is a quality business and intends to do the right thing to keep it's customers. I will not hesitate to give them my business when ever possible.

    Now to resolve that Brand New branding iron problem...

    The power of BEESOURCE!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,881

    Post

    Brushy Mt. has always treated me right, I'm guessing it would have been worked out anyway. But it is a strain on him to foot the bill for the trucking company. I hope he gets his money from them.

    The nicest thing is that Steve has all the coolest gadgets that everyone else doesn't have. My swarm bucket, Merril toolbox, Italian hive tool etc. etc. etc. Not to mention the only supplier of medium nucs and 8 frame boxes.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    67
    Great Job Steve & Brushy Mountain!
    You've got my business!

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